Cams, advance degrees, and such other stuff..
Thread Starter
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 580
Likes: 0
From: Manhattan, NY
Cams, advance degrees, and such other stuff.. Alright.
So, I'm a complete n00b when it comes to this, so feel free to correct me
Am I right from understand that, for instance, 4 degrees timing on a cam will give you more lowend power, but with a tradeoff of sacrificing topend power?
Reason I ask is I am researching cams..
My car is a4, with a 3600 stall. It is a 99% street car, and a 1% drag strip car.
With a 3600 stall, should I even care about the lowend power? I mean, I love going WOT, and stuff. However, in the city (even with my stall) I rarely go 3000 RPMs... unless I'm accelerating from a stoplight and I dont feel like crawling away from it. But would I even see the advantages, if I had a Tr224, or FM11 + 4 degrees?
Or would it be better to have +0 degrees timing on any cam, cause of the stall ?
Feel free to chime in
So, I'm a complete n00b when it comes to this, so feel free to correct me
Am I right from understand that, for instance, 4 degrees timing on a cam will give you more lowend power, but with a tradeoff of sacrificing topend power?
Reason I ask is I am researching cams..
My car is a4, with a 3600 stall. It is a 99% street car, and a 1% drag strip car.
With a 3600 stall, should I even care about the lowend power? I mean, I love going WOT, and stuff. However, in the city (even with my stall) I rarely go 3000 RPMs... unless I'm accelerating from a stoplight and I dont feel like crawling away from it. But would I even see the advantages, if I had a Tr224, or FM11 + 4 degrees?
Or would it be better to have +0 degrees timing on any cam, cause of the stall ?
Feel free to chime in
Advancing the timing will increase low end power a bit because it moves the power band down further into the lower RPM range. But, in turn, you will lose top end because it will also taper off sooner up top. As far as the stall, I can't help you out there because I'm an M6 guy and don't know much about that.
Thread Starter
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 580
Likes: 0
From: Manhattan, NY
Originally Posted by ArcticZ28
Advancing the timing will increase low end power a bit because it moves the power band down further into the lower RPM range. But, in turn, you will lose top end because it will also taper off sooner up top. As far as the stall, I can't help you out there because I'm an M6 guy and don't know much about that.
Question about my 3600 stall still remains though.. if timing's even beneficial to me at all, since if I mash the gas I never actually *see) the lowend.. it never shifts below 3600'ish if I'm WOT.
But I'm not WOT all the time.
Your motor will make its best power at a certain intake closing point. Most 346 ci LS1s seem to make best power with an intake valve closing point between 44-46 degrees ABDC. Even 42-43 degrees is good. If your cam seems too small or peaks at too low of an rpm, it's probably because of an early intake valve closing point. If it's too lazy down low but makes gobs of power above 5500 rpm, it may be that the intake closing point is too late.
Bottom line: Find a cam with an intake closing point of 44-46 degrees ABDC (at .050") and you'll be good. FWIW, a stock '02 LS6 cam with only 204 degrees of intake duration has an intake closing point of 43 degrees ABDC. That's why this small cam will rpm so well...it's retarded 2.5 degrees! My small 215 cam closes at 43 degrees. It pulls to 6800 rpm with ease.
Bottom line: Find a cam with an intake closing point of 44-46 degrees ABDC (at .050") and you'll be good. FWIW, a stock '02 LS6 cam with only 204 degrees of intake duration has an intake closing point of 43 degrees ABDC. That's why this small cam will rpm so well...it's retarded 2.5 degrees! My small 215 cam closes at 43 degrees. It pulls to 6800 rpm with ease.
__________________
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
Thread Starter
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 580
Likes: 0
From: Manhattan, NY
Originally Posted by Patrick G
Your motor will make its best power at a certain intake closing point. Most 346 ci LS1s seem to make best power with an intake valve closing point between 44-46 degrees ABDC. Even 42-43 degrees is good. If your cam seems too small or peaks at too low of an rpm, it's probably because of an early intake valve closing point. If it's too lazy down low but makes gobs of power above 5500 rpm, it may be that the intake closing point is too late.
Bottom line: Find a cam with an intake closing point of 44-46 degrees ABDC (at .050") and you'll be good. FWIW, a stock '02 LS6 cam with only 204 degrees of intake duration has an intake closing point of 43 degrees ABDC. That's why this small cam will rpm so well...it's retarded 2.5 degrees! My small 215 cam closes at 43 degrees. It pulls to 6800 rpm with ease.
Bottom line: Find a cam with an intake closing point of 44-46 degrees ABDC (at .050") and you'll be good. FWIW, a stock '02 LS6 cam with only 204 degrees of intake duration has an intake closing point of 43 degrees ABDC. That's why this small cam will rpm so well...it's retarded 2.5 degrees! My small 215 cam closes at 43 degrees. It pulls to 6800 rpm with ease.
my question was whether or not i should care wtf kinda power i got down low, since i have the 3600 stall torque converter..
so.. shall i care about 3000+ rpm power, or shall i still care about power across the board ? i'm not sure.. but it makes most sense to me to only care about 3,000+ rpms, cause of the stall
you tell me..
Originally Posted by Texas_WS6
Does anyone know what the IVC position of the MS3 set straight up zerro is?
Also how about his stall question? Mine is a 3800 so I have the same question.
Also how about his stall question? Mine is a 3800 so I have the same question.
To answer the more important question, does any of this matter if you run a 3000+ stall? Yes it does. As I mentioned earlier, your motor will make more power everywhere with the proper valve events. Intake closing point is the most important VE. Having a 3000+ stall eliminates most of the need to have really strong torque below 2000 rpm, so you can get by easier with a later intake valve closing...hence sticking with the 44-46 degree IVC point. But because you have a lockup converter and do 99% of your driving away from the strip, you'll still want some decent throttle response below 3000 rpm. Best way to keep that strong is to not get stupid with duration. Any cam with an intake duration between 224-230 would work well, overlap of -5 degrees to positive 5 degrees (at .050"), and an intake closing point of 44-46 degrees should get you in the money every time.
__________________
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
Trending Topics
LS1 Tech Stories
The Best V8 Stories One Small Block at Time
Retro Modern Bandit Pontiac Trans AM Comes With Burt Reynolds' Autograph
Verdad Gallardo
Top 10 Greatest Cadillac V Series Performance Models Ever, Ranked
Pouria Savadkouei
Top 10 Most Powerful Chevy Trucks Ever Made!
Hennessey's New Supercharged Silverado ZR2 Has 700 HP
Verdad Gallardo
Coachbuilt N2A Anteros Is an LS2-Powered C6 Corvette In Italian Clothes
Verdad Gallardo
Awesome K5 Blazer Restomod Comes With C7 Corvette Power
Verdad Gallardo
10 Camaros You Should Never Buy
10 LS Engine Myths That Refuse to Die
Verdad Gallardo
Five Reasons the Camaro Was the Most Pivotal Player in the Pony Car Wars 2.0
Brett Foote
Originally Posted by LS1 BU
Is there a formula to figure out the intake closing or do you just look at the cam card.
