View Poll Results: Which shortblock would you personally go with and why?
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Shortblocks...Which one?
Thread Starter
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 309
Likes: 0
From: Arkansas
Predator...what kind of dual stage? 150 first then a 200? I haven't thought about that yet. Also could you send me some more info or pics of what all I woud need to do this? email is byrontaylor2000@yahoo.com thanks
TECH Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 14,620
Likes: 17
From: BFE
That would be a 350 dual. That can be done too but need some serious MAF 85 mm calibration and bigger noids.
I shoot 100 from the line and 100 activated 200rpm before peak trq.
5177 NOS kit has 2 solinoids that run in series. What I did (learned from KOOLRAYZ, another member) is run these noids independently each capable of a 125 shot.
You run the main line into a Y, from the Y each line into a noid and from the noid into your air box.
My first line is activated by original kit switch in ashtray, my second via a rpm activation switch. Both switches are relayed through the WOT switch, so at end of run, releasing the throttle deactivates both of them.
They are also relayed into an FPSS at the fuel rail (safety measure in case fuel pressure fails)
My tranny is an FLP stage 4 built to handle 600rwhp comfortably so I shoot through the gears.
Dry is more sensitive to tuning than wet, this is where I believe that people tend to be shy, because it requires more tuning knowledge and monitoring.
The nice thing is you can't kill the motor by overreving since if you hit the limiter, fuel pressure drops and FPSS deactivates.
IMO it is a very, very safe system.
I shoot 100 from the line and 100 activated 200rpm before peak trq.
5177 NOS kit has 2 solinoids that run in series. What I did (learned from KOOLRAYZ, another member) is run these noids independently each capable of a 125 shot.
You run the main line into a Y, from the Y each line into a noid and from the noid into your air box.
My first line is activated by original kit switch in ashtray, my second via a rpm activation switch. Both switches are relayed through the WOT switch, so at end of run, releasing the throttle deactivates both of them.
They are also relayed into an FPSS at the fuel rail (safety measure in case fuel pressure fails)
My tranny is an FLP stage 4 built to handle 600rwhp comfortably so I shoot through the gears.
Dry is more sensitive to tuning than wet, this is where I believe that people tend to be shy, because it requires more tuning knowledge and monitoring.
The nice thing is you can't kill the motor by overreving since if you hit the limiter, fuel pressure drops and FPSS deactivates.
IMO it is a very, very safe system.
Thread Starter
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 309
Likes: 0
From: Arkansas
Alright, i'm a little confused. If you have a 100 shot from the start, then a 100 shot at say 4000 rpm (assuming your peak tq is at 4200rpm) how would stop the 1st n2o shot of 100 stop and then kick in the second without the first still being activated or are you at one point or another (4000rpm+ while at WOT) running a 200 shot? The reason I ask is because if both are activated via the WOT switch, wouldn't they both be going? Also is your second shot programmed to shut off at a certain rpm as well or just until you get below the 4000rpm (in this case) or unitl you let off the throttle by deactivating the WOT throttle switch?
Thread Starter
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 309
Likes: 0
From: Arkansas
Also...what kind of tuning are you referring to? how lean/rich...a/f ratio...spark advance/retard do you run? I know that each motor is different but just to use I guess as a ground guide so nothing too awfully bad happens. Also...do you have you ever set the knock sensors? Do you ever hear any labor knocking? Any problems with detonation? How would this compare with the 408 on the same set-up...say 100/100 or 125/125. I probably will have to look into it a little more but I doubt I spray this heavily until I get a 9" rear end and the right tune...for obvious reasons. Would you recommend having this type of tuning done for you or attempting to do it yourself? Can/will anyone on this board be helpful enough to do this myself if I bought the HP Tuners deal for my car?
TECH Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 14,620
Likes: 17
From: BFE
100 from start + 100 at 3800rpm = total 200 for the remainder of the run.
WOT switch is primary arming and other switches are secondary.
As for tuning you tune for NA and 100 shot is handled without any mods if you run higher octane gas.
For the second stage the timing box regulates the on/off and retards the motor by 3*. The enrichment is done via MAF Translator after 3000 rpm.
That is all I need since since I run 98 Octane pump fuel over here.
WOT switch is primary arming and other switches are secondary.
As for tuning you tune for NA and 100 shot is handled without any mods if you run higher octane gas.
For the second stage the timing box regulates the on/off and retards the motor by 3*. The enrichment is done via MAF Translator after 3000 rpm.
That is all I need since since I run 98 Octane pump fuel over here.
Thread Starter
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 309
Likes: 0
From: Arkansas
Assuming you were running 93 octane (this is the highest we can get) what would I need to do to run a set-up like yours...100/100. Retard the timing more? Where is the timing box at? Do you have to buy it? Also the MAF Translator...is it required...what a/f are you running @ start then at full 200 shot...then w/o n2o and what cid are you running? Sorry for the q's but I'm just trying to figure this out.
Thread Starter
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 309
Likes: 0
From: Arkansas
The new motor will be 11.01:1 I think...408 w/AFR 66cc 205 Heads, 244/248 cam, 7.400" Comp Pushrods, Hooker LT's, TSP ORY Cut-Out, ls-6 intake for now, stock TB, Stock MAF, Lid are all the mods for now...soon to get FAST 90/90, MAF from a hummer, K&N FIPK, and a catback which wouldn't make much difference with the cut-outs.
TECH Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 14,620
Likes: 17
From: BFE
Originally Posted by byrontaylor
Assuming you were running 93 octane (this is the highest we can get) what would I need to do to run a set-up like yours...100/100. Retard the timing more?
Where is the timing box at? Do you have to buy it?
http://www.thunderracing.com/catalog...vid=3&pcid=203
Also the MAF Translator...is it required...what a/f are you running @ start then at full 200 shot...then w/o n2o and what cid are you running? Sorry for the q's but I'm just trying to figure this out.
MAFT is an easy way to modify your NA AFR tune for on/off track
I run Stoich AFR at 14.7 and WOT at 12.4 (N20), 13 (NA)
Timing at WOT on N2O is 25* NA is 28.5*
Of course that is relative to my setup and yours will have to be tuned live.
Last edited by PREDATOR-Z; Jul 3, 2005 at 05:19 AM.
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TECH Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 14,620
Likes: 17
From: BFE
2 is a safe rule of thumb.
From personal experience backing 1* is sufficient up to 150 shot with 93+ octane.
Our chambers are very efficient.
Basicaly you have to monitor on live system and retard untill you do not have KR, if you do then you back 1 more and so on.
Otherwise just taking the rule of thumb, you are leaving power on the table.
From personal experience backing 1* is sufficient up to 150 shot with 93+ octane.
Our chambers are very efficient.
Basicaly you have to monitor on live system and retard untill you do not have KR, if you do then you back 1 more and so on.
Otherwise just taking the rule of thumb, you are leaving power on the table.