AFR 205 install-related
#22
12 Second Club
iTrader: (1)
i would not go 60 cc first pass on an afr 205. go to www.smokemup.com and check your dynamic compression. with 62 cc you'll be at 11:1 scr and with a cometic .040-.045 gasket, quench will be ideal.
#23
That webite says the server has crashed. The Pro Shop ordering/installing my heads just did a C5 and had really great results with the 60cc and GM MLS gaskets and is pretty confident it will be a good chamber size. The thicker gasket is supposed to give you about .1-.2 lesser compression. and doesn't seem like it would chnage the quench. I'm a noob at head spec's, but, the numbers they achieved seem to speak for themselves. Most agree with the 61cc & 62cc w/Cometics, but, a lot of stories out there saying problems with leakage with the Cometics. Once my motor is forged, Strange 12-bolt, 4L60E built, I plan to spray 200-250.
I'm obviously pretty confused about which way to go ... just trying to meet my final overall goal. Any additional information as to why one chamber size is better with certain gasket size would be appreciated. I'm going back to Tin Indian's sticky to read through it again. It's beens aid quench is a big piece of the puzzle. BTW, thanks to everyone for your help ... still seeking advice.
I'm obviously pretty confused about which way to go ... just trying to meet my final overall goal. Any additional information as to why one chamber size is better with certain gasket size would be appreciated. I'm going back to Tin Indian's sticky to read through it again. It's beens aid quench is a big piece of the puzzle. BTW, thanks to everyone for your help ... still seeking advice.
#32
Originally Posted by Beast96Z
The cam size is irrelivant. It's all in how the combo is put together. The AFR 224/228 cam seems to make the best power with those particular heads. I've seen people put in larger cams with these heads and they didn't seem to like it to much. You don't have to buy lifters unless your stockers are old. The stock ones can handle some abuse. I'd either run the AFR cam, or have EDC, a board member here, custom grind you one.
the 205's and that cam size is the combo i'm going with soon. MAN..i can't wait!!
counting the months !
#33
Since I went with 60cc chamber size, MLS gaskets, and 224/228 .581/.581 114+1 cam, if I'm not satisified, does anyone think I can later change the gasket out for .040 Cometics gasket without getting into PtV issues and quench problems? I think it might actually improve the quench. Sorry about my lack of technical knowledge about heads/cam combo's.
#34
Originally Posted by JEB99TA
Since I went with 60cc chamber size, MLS gaskets, and 224/228 .581/.581 114+1 cam, if I'm not satisified, does anyone think I can later change the gasket out for .040 Cometics gasket without getting into PtV issues and quench problems? I think it might actually improve the quench. Sorry about my lack of technical knowledge about heads/cam combo's.
#35
TECH Senior Member
Originally Posted by Tony Mamo @ AFR
60 cc's and no valve notches (with an .040 gasket) adds up to a bunch of compression (11.5 ish). Straight pump gas might be a challenge. Who instruted you to mill the heads to 60 cc's?? With that cam you could have ran an .040 gasket, a 62 cc chamber, and you would not have had to notch pistons....also your CR would have been closer to 11.25 CR....more user friendly assuming 92-93 octane availability.
I would estimate a good 10rwhp can be had with nice tight quench, and that is true with even stock heads.
Poeple ask me how I get 404rwhp out of a 224/220 + bolt ons on an A4 and I seriously believe it is thanks to a .038 quench, LS6 light effective moving valvetrain mass and the little extra SCR. (241 heads, LS6 valves, 918's, Tit ret. and Cometic .045) The rest is untouched (except for portmatching)
#36
Guys, there are expert opinions here ... many are tried, true, and tested (on various setups), but, I'm seeing a LOT of numbers stacking up in the favor for others' dyno numbers with the GM MLS gaskets and 59cc chambers ... and on pump gas. I certainly don't want to achieve 11.5:1 compression only to detonate and destroy my engine. The heads/cam should be on the way soon and I'll post up the dyno numbers/gains.
BTW, your advice is greatly appreciated and I have the greatest respect for your guidance. I'll consider everything everyone has contributed here and in other threads I have up. It's nice to know such respected and knowledgeable folks here reply to my posts. I thank you sincerely for that.
I guess it was said best like this: 'depends a lot on the setup of the car and a LOT of variables'
BTW, your advice is greatly appreciated and I have the greatest respect for your guidance. I'll consider everything everyone has contributed here and in other threads I have up. It's nice to know such respected and knowledgeable folks here reply to my posts. I thank you sincerely for that.
I guess it was said best like this: 'depends a lot on the setup of the car and a LOT of variables'
#37
Originally Posted by JEB99TA
Guys, there are expert opinions here ... many are tried, true, and tested (on various setups), but, I'm seeing a LOT of numbers stacking up in the favor for others' dyno numbers with the GM MLS gaskets and 59cc chambers ... and on pump gas.
I'm sure this is one of those divided topics (isn't everything??) but my guess is the majority of the engine builders polled would go with the tighter quench approach.
Regards,
Tony M.
Last edited by Tony Mamo @ AFR; 07-27-2005 at 03:36 PM.
#38
I guess I just don't understand why quench is SOOOO important between 1cc or 2cc of chamber size difference. A cubic centimeter is on the scale of being microscopic when one talks about the power of the explosive combustion that is occuring at such a high rate of quicker-than-lightening speed. It's not like the minute bit of a gas vapor or air is not getting burned ... don't think it could hide in there at such a tremendous velocity of explosiveness.
Looking at scores of setups, some of the H/C setups with 66cc chamber sizes make more power than 59cc chamber sizes and vice versa ... looks (from real numbers) that it works both ways, dependent on the overall setup of the car/motor. One could call my line of thinking Hillbilly-like in nature, and you would certainly be correct. I just don't see that it leaves any more than 1-5 HP on-the-table. That's of utmost importance to alot of folks, but, I sure don't want my pistons within .003-.006" of banging into the you-know what.
I want a safe setup, so, I really don't see what's wrong with my options. All you guys opinions are appreciated a lot. Thanks for weighing in. I just don't see any right accross-the-board answer for the type gsakets and milling/chamber size that is best for all setups in most every case. It's a really opinion-oriented subject. as Mr. Mamo stated, it's one of those divided subjects.
Again, thanks to everyone for your answers ... alot of good insight here.
Looking at scores of setups, some of the H/C setups with 66cc chamber sizes make more power than 59cc chamber sizes and vice versa ... looks (from real numbers) that it works both ways, dependent on the overall setup of the car/motor. One could call my line of thinking Hillbilly-like in nature, and you would certainly be correct. I just don't see that it leaves any more than 1-5 HP on-the-table. That's of utmost importance to alot of folks, but, I sure don't want my pistons within .003-.006" of banging into the you-know what.
I want a safe setup, so, I really don't see what's wrong with my options. All you guys opinions are appreciated a lot. Thanks for weighing in. I just don't see any right accross-the-board answer for the type gsakets and milling/chamber size that is best for all setups in most every case. It's a really opinion-oriented subject. as Mr. Mamo stated, it's one of those divided subjects.
Again, thanks to everyone for your answers ... alot of good insight here.
#39
On The Tree
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Tinsel Town, USA
Posts: 124
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I had my AFR heads milled .040 by Westcoast Cylinder Heads. They said the chambers came out to 60.6cc. I used the Cometic head gasket .045. I am not sure of the compression, because I can't be sure of the out of the hole value. Using the following calculator I s/b around 11.1:1. http://www.c5frc.com/calculators/Com...Calculator.htm
I have not had the car on a dyno yet, it was tuned by spirted driving with a scanner plugged into the PCM. I made about 8 passes at over 100mph. My programmer asked me if I wanted the engine to last, therefore he did not try to sqeeze every pony out of it, some was left on the table. Since we have 91 Octane here, I add a quart of Torco with each tank. Car runs great, can't wait for cooler weather at the track.
Check the sig for more details!!!
I have not had the car on a dyno yet, it was tuned by spirted driving with a scanner plugged into the PCM. I made about 8 passes at over 100mph. My programmer asked me if I wanted the engine to last, therefore he did not try to sqeeze every pony out of it, some was left on the table. Since we have 91 Octane here, I add a quart of Torco with each tank. Car runs great, can't wait for cooler weather at the track.
Check the sig for more details!!!
Last edited by wallstAL; 07-29-2005 at 03:33 AM.