View Poll Results: AFR or TEA
Spend the extra money on the better head
97
68.31%
Save a bit of money and put it toward another mod or tuning
45
31.69%
Voters: 142. You may not vote on this poll
AFR vs TEA
08-04-2005, 09:29 PM
#41
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AFR...
1) Better Casting
2) Better Craftsmanship
3) Good, Consistant Flow#'s
4) Smaller Chambers
5) Thicker Deck
6) Not Stock Heads
7) PROVEN Performance
8) PROVEN Reliabilty
9) PROVEN Quality Control
10) PROVEN @ The Race Track Where It Counts!!
You can't go wrong with AFR in my opinion. Yes, they are a lil more expensive than other "stock" ported heads, but you get what you pay for 100%!! AFR builds quality top of the line heads for many other applications.. I think people forget the fact that AFR is run by alot of the pro's in NMRA, FFW, etc.. Big Blocks, Small Blocks, Fords, Chevys, etc.. AFR is on top in all areas, not just with the LS1.. And they have been doing it for 35 years..
1) Better Casting
2) Better Craftsmanship
3) Good, Consistant Flow#'s
4) Smaller Chambers
5) Thicker Deck
6) Not Stock Heads
7) PROVEN Performance
8) PROVEN Reliabilty
9) PROVEN Quality Control
10) PROVEN @ The Race Track Where It Counts!!
You can't go wrong with AFR in my opinion. Yes, they are a lil more expensive than other "stock" ported heads, but you get what you pay for 100%!! AFR builds quality top of the line heads for many other applications.. I think people forget the fact that AFR is run by alot of the pro's in NMRA, FFW, etc.. Big Blocks, Small Blocks, Fords, Chevys, etc.. AFR is on top in all areas, not just with the LS1.. And they have been doing it for 35 years..
08-04-2005, 09:32 PM
#42
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Originally Posted by WS6FirebirdTA00
im pretty sure the vavle float is from the single springs that are not a beehive shape, the harmonics in the valve train will cause a resonation in the springs. these are dual springs. the prcs are good for .650? lift i think. ive talked to may shops about this and they said what comes on it is perfectly fine, no need to blow any more money. but they know what they are talking about, but they also sell the heads and im sure would want to cover themselves, if it breaks, well hey it says it right there on the site to go better lol hell i dont nkow
just saw your edit, and that is the reason i asked about the springs, im running .598 lift so i was worried, but was told not to they are good for a bit more than that. maybe tony will come back and say something about that
just saw your edit, and that is the reason i asked about the springs, im running .598 lift so i was worried, but was told not to they are good for a bit more than that. maybe tony will come back and say something about that
Tony - can you confirm to us what springs your heads come with?
08-04-2005, 09:36 PM
#43
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The AFR springs are rated at a .600 lift, which by all means is not drastically weak, but they are not sufficient for many of the popular cams out there
Combos with the cams you mentionned had to be flycut with 59cc chambers to produce near the same power that the smaller cam achieved without flycuting the pistons and with a less SCR, allowing more streetability on pump gas.
The AFR 225 62 cc is the one to watch for those bigger cams.
Everyone seems to forget why they are called 205's (205 cc intake runners), do you realise how small that is Vs "Other" heads that have been hogged to 224+ cc, therefore reducing structural integrity of the head.
A lot of poeple still do not get it. AFR's are not GM castings, they cannot be compared on equal terms Vs GM casting heads (I do not care what you do to them).
It is like comparing a mule and a horse. They look similar but are 2 different animals.
08-04-2005, 09:43 PM
#45
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Originally Posted by 1QuickT-A
AFR...
1) Better Casting
2) Better Craftsmanship
3) Good, Consistant Flow#'s
4) Smaller Chambers
5) Thicker Deck
6) Not Stock Heads
7) PROVEN Performance
8) PROVEN Reliabilty
9) PROVEN Quality Control
10) PROVEN @ The Race Track Where It Counts!!
You can't go wrong with AFR in my opinion. Yes, they are a lil more expensive than other "stock" ported heads, but you get what you pay for 100%!! AFR builds quality top of the line heads for many other applications.. I think people forget the fact that AFR is run by alot of the pro's in NMRA, FFW, etc.. Big Blocks, Small Blocks, Fords, Chevys, etc.. AFR is on top in all areas, not just with the LS1.. And they have been doing it for 35 years..
1) Better Casting
2) Better Craftsmanship
3) Good, Consistant Flow#'s
4) Smaller Chambers
5) Thicker Deck
6) Not Stock Heads
7) PROVEN Performance
8) PROVEN Reliabilty
9) PROVEN Quality Control
10) PROVEN @ The Race Track Where It Counts!!
You can't go wrong with AFR in my opinion. Yes, they are a lil more expensive than other "stock" ported heads, but you get what you pay for 100%!! AFR builds quality top of the line heads for many other applications.. I think people forget the fact that AFR is run by alot of the pro's in NMRA, FFW, etc.. Big Blocks, Small Blocks, Fords, Chevys, etc.. AFR is on top in all areas, not just with the LS1.. And they have been doing it for 35 years..
And your whole "stock" argument is ludicrous. You had better throw that "stock" ported throttle body away and buy a BBK- after all it's stock right? You had better get rid of that "stock" ported LS6 oil pump and buy a QTP aftermarket oil pump and spend a lot of green.
It seems that you are aftermarket happy, which isn't always the best choice. Some could argue that an LS6 intake manifold is better than a Weiand intake. One is stock and the other is not. However, you can not call something stock when it has been modified. My heads are ported. Would it be right to tell someone I have stock heads? No, it wouldn't be.
I am sure the originator of this thread wanted comparisons not biased opinions.
Also, TEA heads power some of the fastest Mustangs in the world. You are comparing apples to oranges. TEA and AFR differ in their work, be it a BBC, SBC, BBF, or SBF. Each head for every engine is different, and neither company is the best at all of them.
With that said, again - both companies put out one hell of a product.
08-04-2005, 09:45 PM
#46
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Originally Posted by PREDATOR-Z
That is because the AFRs were not designed with those cams in mind. So far the best cam for them is AFR 224/228 which has less than .600 lifts.
Combos with the cams you mentionned had to be flycut with 59cc chambers to produce near the same power that the smaller cam achieved without flycuting the pistons and with a less SCR, allowing more streetability on pump gas.
The AFR 225 62 cc is the one to watch for those bigger cams.
Everyone seems to forget why they are called 205's (205 cc intake runners), do you realise how small that is Vs "Other" heads that have been hogged to 224+ cc, therefore reducing structural integrity of the head.
A lot of poeple still do not get it. AFR's are not GM castings, they cannot be compared on equal terms Vs GM casting heads (I do not care what you do to them).
It is like comparing a mule and a horse. They look similar but are 2 different animals.
Combos with the cams you mentionned had to be flycut with 59cc chambers to produce near the same power that the smaller cam achieved without flycuting the pistons and with a less SCR, allowing more streetability on pump gas.
The AFR 225 62 cc is the one to watch for those bigger cams.
Everyone seems to forget why they are called 205's (205 cc intake runners), do you realise how small that is Vs "Other" heads that have been hogged to 224+ cc, therefore reducing structural integrity of the head.
A lot of poeple still do not get it. AFR's are not GM castings, they cannot be compared on equal terms Vs GM casting heads (I do not care what you do to them).
It is like comparing a mule and a horse. They look similar but are 2 different animals.
08-04-2005, 10:08 PM
#48
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Originally Posted by PREDATOR-Z
Please show me one TEA 1.5 combo with a 224 and <.600 lift cam making 480rwhp in a full weight car.Maybe I missed it.
The only way to compare performance is to put the EXACT SAME CAM in 2 different engines. Fit one with TEA's heads, and fit one with AFR's heads. (Spend the same amount of green, though.
Who cares about stage 1.5, compare price. I got my TEA 6.0L stage 3 heads for less than a set of AFR 205's. Case in point, you can get higher than a stg 1.5 for the price equality after upgrading your AFR springs.) Then put them on the same dyno. Compare results and find out the winner of the dyno contest. Then take them to the track and use the same driver with the same car and same weight. Compare results and find out the winner of the track contest.
08-04-2005, 10:13 PM
#49
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Originally Posted by dragonZ28
HP has nothing to do with weight.
The only way to compare performance is to put the EXACT SAME CAM in 2 different engines. Fit one with TEA's heads, and fit one with AFR's heads. (Spend the same amount of green, though. Who cares about stage 1.5, compare price. I got my TEA 6.0L stage 3 heads for less than a set of AFR 205's. Case in point, you can get higher than a stg 1.5 for the price equality after upgrading your AFR springs.) Then put them on the same dyno. Compare results and find out the winner of the dyno contest. Then take them to the track and use the same driver with the same car and same weight. Compare results and find out the winner of the track contest.
The only way to compare performance is to put the EXACT SAME CAM in 2 different engines. Fit one with TEA's heads, and fit one with AFR's heads. (Spend the same amount of green, though.
Who cares about stage 1.5, compare price. I got my TEA 6.0L stage 3 heads for less than a set of AFR 205's. Case in point, you can get higher than a stg 1.5 for the price equality after upgrading your AFR springs.) Then put them on the same dyno. Compare results and find out the winner of the dyno contest. Then take them to the track and use the same driver with the same car and same weight. Compare results and find out the winner of the track contest.
08-04-2005, 10:17 PM
#51
!LS1 11 Second Club
It's simple.
TEA will deliver an incredibly worked GM casting.
AFR will deliver an incredibly worked aftermarket head.
BOTH deliver HP and performance. I think it all comes down to how much you want to spend.
I'm glad we have so many choices now (and quality choices at that).
I can only speak from experience as a TEA customer (a very satisfied cutomer).
AFR guys will chime also, with satisfaction.
THIS IS GOOD!!!!!!!!!
TEA will deliver an incredibly worked GM casting.
AFR will deliver an incredibly worked aftermarket head.
BOTH deliver HP and performance. I think it all comes down to how much you want to spend.
I'm glad we have so many choices now (and quality choices at that).
I can only speak from experience as a TEA customer (a very satisfied cutomer).
AFR guys will chime also, with satisfaction.
THIS IS GOOD!!!!!!!!!
08-04-2005, 10:53 PM
#52
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Originally Posted by 1QuickT-A
AFR...
1) Better Casting
2) Better Craftsmanship
3) Good, Consistant Flow#'s
4) Smaller Chambers
5) Thicker Deck
6) Not Stock Heads
7) PROVEN Performance
8) PROVEN Reliabilty
9) PROVEN Quality Control
10) PROVEN @ The Race Track Where It Counts!!
You can't go wrong with AFR in my opinion. Yes, they are a lil more expensive than other "stock" ported heads, but you get what you pay for 100%!! AFR builds quality top of the line heads for many other applications.. I think people forget the fact that AFR is run by alot of the pro's in NMRA, FFW, etc.. Big Blocks, Small Blocks, Fords, Chevys, etc.. AFR is on top in all areas, not just with the LS1.. And they have been doing it for 35 years..
1) Better Casting
2) Better Craftsmanship
3) Good, Consistant Flow#'s
4) Smaller Chambers
5) Thicker Deck
6) Not Stock Heads
7) PROVEN Performance
8) PROVEN Reliabilty
9) PROVEN Quality Control
10) PROVEN @ The Race Track Where It Counts!!
You can't go wrong with AFR in my opinion. Yes, they are a lil more expensive than other "stock" ported heads, but you get what you pay for 100%!! AFR builds quality top of the line heads for many other applications.. I think people forget the fact that AFR is run by alot of the pro's in NMRA, FFW, etc.. Big Blocks, Small Blocks, Fords, Chevys, etc.. AFR is on top in all areas, not just with the LS1.. And they have been doing it for 35 years..
08-04-2005, 10:55 PM
#53
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Another feature of the AFR's is that there is room for improvement. If you go bigger and better you can pull the heads and have them worked.. A set of worked AFR's will kill a set of worked GM 5.3's anyday in my opinion..
08-04-2005, 11:01 PM
#54
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Originally Posted by 1QuickT-A
I was merely posting FACTS and nothing more. I'm not saying that TEA hasnt put out good products or anything like that. But, I think that there is more experience at AFR and your chances of getting the best heads are with AFR. You don't have anything worry about with them, unlike some of the other heads on the market.
08-04-2005, 11:01 PM
#55
Just to clarify... Less filling....
(Port volume that is! I know....another shameless 205 plug!)
I would have never guessed this thread was going to be so "popular"...
I'm going to just speak about the spring situation quickly and move on. As some of you know already, our standard LS1 springs are from the same manufacturer that supplies the "gold" spring for Patriot (I believe the PRC springs are slightly different). It's a dual 1.260 diameter spring and their track record has been one of the best on the market, barring say the Comp 921, and the pressures are just right for average or slightly aggressive build-ups. Most manufacturer's would rate that spring to .650 lift (as does Patriot) because there is plenty of room till coilbind to go there. We, on the other hand, are trying to protect you from yourselves. Our thoughts are a larger than .600 lift cam will probably have a fair amount of duration, combined with the efficiency and flow the AFR head provides, all adds up to an engine that will want to spin some serious RPM's. My puss 224 cam would buzz 7K in a blink....now let's talk 230+ degrees, .600 plus lift all adds up to an engine that will want to pull over 7000 RPM's easily (in most applications). Due to that fact, AFR recommends a move to a more aggressive spring (both seat and open pressures) to better control an engine we feel confident will be spinning high RPM's on a fairly regular basis. For those that don't want to upgrade, there is NO problems concerning coilbind, but it is our recommendation that you do. Take it for what it's worth.
On to place my vote in the poll and I'm outta here.
Enjoy the debate....
Tony M.
(Port volume that is! I know....another shameless 205 plug!)
I would have never guessed this thread was going to be so "popular"...
I'm going to just speak about the spring situation quickly and move on. As some of you know already, our standard LS1 springs are from the same manufacturer that supplies the "gold" spring for Patriot (I believe the PRC springs are slightly different). It's a dual 1.260 diameter spring and their track record has been one of the best on the market, barring say the Comp 921, and the pressures are just right for average or slightly aggressive build-ups. Most manufacturer's would rate that spring to .650 lift (as does Patriot) because there is plenty of room till coilbind to go there. We, on the other hand, are trying to protect you from yourselves. Our thoughts are a larger than .600 lift cam will probably have a fair amount of duration, combined with the efficiency and flow the AFR head provides, all adds up to an engine that will want to spin some serious RPM's. My puss 224 cam would buzz 7K in a blink....now let's talk 230+ degrees, .600 plus lift all adds up to an engine that will want to pull over 7000 RPM's easily (in most applications). Due to that fact, AFR recommends a move to a more aggressive spring (both seat and open pressures) to better control an engine we feel confident will be spinning high RPM's on a fairly regular basis. For those that don't want to upgrade, there is NO problems concerning coilbind, but it is our recommendation that you do. Take it for what it's worth.
On to place my vote in the poll and I'm outta here.
Enjoy the debate....
Tony M.
08-04-2005, 11:08 PM
#56
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Originally Posted by Tony Mamo @ AFR
Less filling....
(Port volume that is! I know....another shameless 205 plug!)
I would have never guessed this thread was going to be so "popular"...
I'm going to just speak about the spring situation quickly and move on. As some of you know already, our standard LS1 springs are from the same manufacturer that supplies the "gold" spring for Patriot (I believe the PRC springs are slightly different). It's a dual 1.260 diameter spring and their track record has been one of the best on the market, barring say the Comp 921, and the pressures are just right for average or slightly aggressive build-ups. Most manufacturer's would rate that spring to .650 lift (as does Patriot) because there is plenty of room till coilbind to go there. We, on the other hand, are trying to protect you from yourselves. Our thoughts are a larger than .600 lift cam will probably have a fair amount of duration, combined with the efficiency and flow the AFR head provides, all adds up to an engine that will want to spin some serious RPM's. My puss 224 cam would buzz 7K in a blink....now let's talk 230+ degrees, .600 plus lift all adds up to an engine that will want to pull over 7000 RPM's easily (in most applications). Due to that fact, AFR recommends a move to a more aggressive spring (both seat and open pressures) to better control an engine we feel confident will be spinning high RPM's on a fairly regular basis. For those that don't want to upgrade, there is NO problems concerning coilbind, but it is our recommendation that you do. Take it for what it's worth.
On to place my vote in the poll and I'm outta here.
Enjoy the debate....
Tony M.
(Port volume that is! I know....another shameless 205 plug!)
I would have never guessed this thread was going to be so "popular"...
I'm going to just speak about the spring situation quickly and move on. As some of you know already, our standard LS1 springs are from the same manufacturer that supplies the "gold" spring for Patriot (I believe the PRC springs are slightly different). It's a dual 1.260 diameter spring and their track record has been one of the best on the market, barring say the Comp 921, and the pressures are just right for average or slightly aggressive build-ups. Most manufacturer's would rate that spring to .650 lift (as does Patriot) because there is plenty of room till coilbind to go there. We, on the other hand, are trying to protect you from yourselves. Our thoughts are a larger than .600 lift cam will probably have a fair amount of duration, combined with the efficiency and flow the AFR head provides, all adds up to an engine that will want to spin some serious RPM's. My puss 224 cam would buzz 7K in a blink....now let's talk 230+ degrees, .600 plus lift all adds up to an engine that will want to pull over 7000 RPM's easily (in most applications). Due to that fact, AFR recommends a move to a more aggressive spring (both seat and open pressures) to better control an engine we feel confident will be spinning high RPM's on a fairly regular basis. For those that don't want to upgrade, there is NO problems concerning coilbind, but it is our recommendation that you do. Take it for what it's worth.
On to place my vote in the poll and I'm outta here.
Enjoy the debate....
Tony M.
Thanks, Tony. That will explain a lot of people's questions.
08-04-2005, 11:36 PM
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Originally Posted by dragonZ28
I have to agree with you. There are a bunch of ported GM castings floating around that are nothing but a shame. I won't mention any specific companies, but you know where they come from.
Yeah I know EXACTLY what you are getting at.. For some of us its just knowing that there is absolutely nothing to worry about.. With AFR you know that everything is consistant, the quality is 100%, and the service and experience is top of the line.. And its hard to beat that in my opinion. So, if you have the extra money then I'd go with AFR for sure.
I went the cheaper route and it ended up not working out for me so I'm gonna save up the extra cash and get what I really wanted in the first place. I'm not saying that the cheaper route hasnt worked out for alot of others because it clearly has, but it just isnt the way that I want to go anymore.
08-05-2005, 01:12 AM
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Stand by for results with LS6 2.5 heads, medium sized camshaft and full bolt ons. It isnt my car, but trust me it's in the works. Also, call TEA, you will be surprised at the cost of the 2.5's. Especially if you already have 243 castings.
08-05-2005, 02:02 AM
#60
[QUOTE=1QuickT-A]AFR...
1) Better Casting Defentially True.
2) Better Craftsmanship Then who Patroit. there castings are better but craftmanship is awsome for AFR and TEA
3) Good, Consistant Flow#'s Agreed, and TEA's numbers are damn consistant as well.
4) Smaller Chambers Agreed
5) Thicker Deck Agreed
6) Not Stock Heads Didn't you say the same thing in number 1???
Also I didn't realize stock heads were the same as ported heads.
7) PROVEN Performance Like every head company cant say the same thing.
8) PROVEN Reliabilty And what does TEA have?
9) PROVEN Quality Control Again what do you call TEA;s quality control
10) PROVEN @ The Race Track Where It Counts!! TEA has proven they can win a race or 2. Oh wait nevermind people buy their heads because they always take last place.
QUOTE]
Damn dude if you gonna make a post at least make a good arguement.
Half the **** you wrote is just that. "****"
Now the same stupid *** post by a TEA fan.
1) Better Price
2) Better Craftsmanship
3) Good, Consistant Flow#'s
4) Better flow numbers
5) More compression out of the box.
6) Not Stock Heads
7) PROVEN Performance
8) PROVEN Reliabilty
9) PROVEN Quality Control
10) PROVEN @ The Race Track Where It Counts!!
Damn its funny how you change a few words and almost every statement you made can go the other way.
Hell I am surprised number 11 wasn't Proven Customer Service.
Maybe 12 could be Proven 50 state legal.
1) Better Casting Defentially True.
2) Better Craftsmanship Then who Patroit. there castings are better but craftmanship is awsome for AFR and TEA
3) Good, Consistant Flow#'s Agreed, and TEA's numbers are damn consistant as well.
4) Smaller Chambers Agreed
5) Thicker Deck Agreed
6) Not Stock Heads Didn't you say the same thing in number 1???
Also I didn't realize stock heads were the same as ported heads.
7) PROVEN Performance Like every head company cant say the same thing.
8) PROVEN Reliabilty And what does TEA have?
9) PROVEN Quality Control Again what do you call TEA;s quality control
10) PROVEN @ The Race Track Where It Counts!! TEA has proven they can win a race or 2. Oh wait nevermind people buy their heads because they always take last place.
QUOTE]
Damn dude if you gonna make a post at least make a good arguement.
Half the **** you wrote is just that. "****"
Now the same stupid *** post by a TEA fan.
1) Better Price
2) Better Craftsmanship
3) Good, Consistant Flow#'s
4) Better flow numbers
5) More compression out of the box.
6) Not Stock Heads
7) PROVEN Performance
8) PROVEN Reliabilty
9) PROVEN Quality Control
10) PROVEN @ The Race Track Where It Counts!!
Damn its funny how you change a few words and almost every statement you made can go the other way.
Hell I am surprised number 11 wasn't Proven Customer Service.
Maybe 12 could be Proven 50 state legal.