Tr224, Tr230, F13
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From: Islip Terrace, NY
Tr224, Tr230, F13 cams are such a pain in the *** to choose. I thought i had my heart set on the F13 becauase of its great power and driveability. But now i'm worried because this is a DD and i'm going to be putting almost 10k on it a year I don't want to go through springs or any other valvetrain parts too often. I started looking at the TR224 and heard it was a great cam but some people who have it wish they ahd got something bigger along with people who have the F11. Now i'm checking out the TR230, i know it makes good numbers but don't know whether or not it would be good for a DD. I like the fact that the TR cams have smaller lift than the Futrals and still make good power. Any opinions??
I just put a tr230 in my car last week. My car is a daily driver and the reason I picked this cam is b/c of the power levels I saw it produce w/ the relatively small lift #'s.
I picked up 48rwhp and 21rwtq from the cam and tune alone. No pulley installed.
My #'s now are 395.6rwhp / 377.6rwtq.
All in all, for the relative size of the cam compared to the other big power cams, and the aggressive lope it has at idle, I don't see why this cam wouldn't be considered the perfect DD cam.
Heres my comparison dyno graph from before and after, only change was the cam and tune
I picked up 48rwhp and 21rwtq from the cam and tune alone. No pulley installed.
My #'s now are 395.6rwhp / 377.6rwtq.
All in all, for the relative size of the cam compared to the other big power cams, and the aggressive lope it has at idle, I don't see why this cam wouldn't be considered the perfect DD cam.
Heres my comparison dyno graph from before and after, only change was the cam and tune
Last edited by FstBlkz28; Aug 30, 2005 at 03:34 PM.
The tune is the key to being able to love a cam on a daily basis. I've seen Geoff from Thunder Racing make a T-Rex cam in a 346 idle and run nearly as well as stock. An F-13 should be no problem in a daily driver. Just get it tuned right. Also, don't scrimp on the springs. Get some good duals (PRC, Patriot Golds, Manley dual, they're all made by the same company are are very good). You should be able to get 20k+ miles out of them no problem.
__________________
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
Isn't the f13 less aggressive than the xe-r cams? I remember reading it was..
Either way.. It doesn't matter.. that doesn't determine your drivability.. if anything a more aggressive cam will make better power downlow and idle better than an a cam with the same duration/lift but less agressive.
However, in this case it'd probably be neglible. I would choose the f13 as it typically makes more power than the tr230, and has awesome drivability. Not only that, the difference in valvespring life would be neglible.. I'd base the valvespring life more on your driving style. If it's at high rpm's all the freakin time then 15-20k might be good.. otherwise its just for safety. Personally I know tons of people with 40k-50k on their valvesprings with either of the mentioned cams or something similar.
Peace,
Josh
Either way.. It doesn't matter.. that doesn't determine your drivability.. if anything a more aggressive cam will make better power downlow and idle better than an a cam with the same duration/lift but less agressive.
However, in this case it'd probably be neglible. I would choose the f13 as it typically makes more power than the tr230, and has awesome drivability. Not only that, the difference in valvespring life would be neglible.. I'd base the valvespring life more on your driving style. If it's at high rpm's all the freakin time then 15-20k might be good.. otherwise its just for safety. Personally I know tons of people with 40k-50k on their valvesprings with either of the mentioned cams or something similar.
Peace,
Josh
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Joined: Sep 2004
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From: Grand Junction, CO / Tomball, TX
Originally Posted by FstBlkz28
I just put a tr230 in my car last week. My car is a daily driver and the reason I picked this cam is b/c of the power levels I saw it produce w/ the relatively small lift #'s.
I picked up 48rwhp and 21rwtq from the cam and tune alone. No pulley installed.
My #'s now are 395.6rwhp / 377.6rwtq.
All in all, for the relative size of the cam compared to the other big power cams, and the aggressive lope it has at idle, I don't see why this cam wouldn't be considered the perfect DD cam.
Heres my comparison dyno graph from before and after, only change was the cam and tune
I picked up 48rwhp and 21rwtq from the cam and tune alone. No pulley installed.
My #'s now are 395.6rwhp / 377.6rwtq.
All in all, for the relative size of the cam compared to the other big power cams, and the aggressive lope it has at idle, I don't see why this cam wouldn't be considered the perfect DD cam.
Heres my comparison dyno graph from before and after, only change was the cam and tune
Originally Posted by PSYKOZ28
Is this with an M6 or A4, i as told i should'nt go with the 230 in an A4..i should go with a 227...now I am curious.
my car is an M6. Dunno why you wouldn't be alright w/ the 230 in an A4, it'd all come down to the tuning really.
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From: The South
Originally Posted by PSYKOZ28
Is this with an M6 or A4, i as told i should'nt go with the 230 in an A4..i should go with a 227...now I am curious.
Who told you not to go 230 in an A2?
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,447
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From: Grand Junction, CO / Tomball, TX
Originally Posted by blkZ28spt
I have a 237/242 in an A4 and it works perfectly fine.
Who told you not to go 230 in an A2?
Who told you not to go 230 in an A2?
a freind and also the guy that tunes my car for a while now, **** he has that cam....i think he just doesnt want me to pull him
Originally Posted by 1LoudTA
cams are such a pain in the *** to choose. I thought i had my heart set on the F13 becauase of its great power and driveability. But now i'm worried because this is a DD and i'm going to be putting almost 10k on it a year I don't want to go through springs or any other valvetrain parts too often. I started looking at the TR224 and heard it was a great cam but some people who have it wish they ahd got something bigger along with people who have the F11. Now i'm checking out the TR230, i know it makes good numbers but don't know whether or not it would be good for a DD. I like the fact that the TR cams have smaller lift than the Futrals and still make good power. Any opinions??
You might look at something in the 228 range. Your converter and gears lead me to believe a 228-ish cam would work really well with your set up. Doesn't Futral have a 228/228 cam or something close to that?
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Joined: Dec 2004
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While a cam with an aggressive profile may be harder on the springs, it is the aggressive profile that allows you to make big power with less duration. It is the duration and resulting overlap and loss of dynamic compression that makes big cams a noisy and irritable at low engine speeds.
Oval track racers don't shift (prohibited in the rules) and there fore need a wide powerband. as much as 40-50% of the rpm range. This compares to 25=35% of the rpm range for a road racer/drag racer. For example, we may take the green flag at 4000-4500 rpm and drop that low or lower in a traffic situtation. However, we could hit 7200-7400 at the end of a straight. (My class, others with different engine rules vary).
Anyway, the way to get this is with the most aggressive cam you buy. When you read in Comp Cams profiles that the MH is the most aggressive cam they make for the .842 lifter (a rule restriction), that is written for people racing in my class. (I actually use MA grind with more rocker ratio than the MH can tolerate, comes out about the same or a little more aggressive IMHO).
Anyway, for power and street drivability, lots of lift is the way to go. I would definitely look at an LSK for the intake. Exhausts need the aggressive ramp off the seat but don't need the lift for flow.
If you can change a cam changing a valve spring is no big deal. And in a daily driver, running at low revs, you aren't putting the cycles or the heat that a racer is running it over 4500 for 30-60 minutes at a time.
If you want to make the springs last longer, you can also consider adding valve covers with valve spring oilers. The oil keeps the springs cooler extending their life. Here is a picture of an LS1 cover with oilers:
Oval track racers don't shift (prohibited in the rules) and there fore need a wide powerband. as much as 40-50% of the rpm range. This compares to 25=35% of the rpm range for a road racer/drag racer. For example, we may take the green flag at 4000-4500 rpm and drop that low or lower in a traffic situtation. However, we could hit 7200-7400 at the end of a straight. (My class, others with different engine rules vary).
Anyway, the way to get this is with the most aggressive cam you buy. When you read in Comp Cams profiles that the MH is the most aggressive cam they make for the .842 lifter (a rule restriction), that is written for people racing in my class. (I actually use MA grind with more rocker ratio than the MH can tolerate, comes out about the same or a little more aggressive IMHO).
Anyway, for power and street drivability, lots of lift is the way to go. I would definitely look at an LSK for the intake. Exhausts need the aggressive ramp off the seat but don't need the lift for flow.
If you can change a cam changing a valve spring is no big deal. And in a daily driver, running at low revs, you aren't putting the cycles or the heat that a racer is running it over 4500 for 30-60 minutes at a time.
If you want to make the springs last longer, you can also consider adding valve covers with valve spring oilers. The oil keeps the springs cooler extending their life. Here is a picture of an LS1 cover with oilers:
