anyone experience MORE piston slap with German Castrol 0w30?
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Originally Posted by Camaro99SS
My motor has slapped since I've had it, and I haven't noticed any difference going from Mobil 1 0W40 to German Syntec. Let's get this straight though while we're on the piston slap issure again. If the slap goes away as the engine warms up, it's NOT harmful. GM made them loose for when we all romp on our cars time and again where things get really hot and the pistons expanding. While other quiet motors may be wearing on the cylinder walls under extremem conditions, ours won't be from less friction. This is why any LS1 you tear down, you'll still find the original cross-hatch, even past 150k miles. I suspect that when the first 03/04 Cobra motors are torn down with this mileage, the same will not be true. Those motors are just too tight. Ask any owner who knows their stuff.
Jason
Jason
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Originally Posted by Camaro99SS
My motor has slapped since I've had it, and I haven't noticed any difference going from Mobil 1 0W40 to German Syntec. Let's get this straight though while we're on the piston slap issure again. If the slap goes away as the engine warms up, it's NOT harmful. GM made them loose for when we all romp on our cars time and again where things get really hot and the pistons expanding. While other quiet motors may be wearing on the cylinder walls under extremem conditions, ours won't be from less friction. This is why any LS1 you tear down, you'll still find the original cross-hatch, even past 150k miles. I suspect that when the first 03/04 Cobra motors are torn down with this mileage, the same will not be true. Those motors are just too tight. Ask any owner who knows their stuff.
Jason
Jason
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Originally Posted by Camaro99SS
My motor has slapped since I've had it, and I haven't noticed any difference going from Mobil 1 0W40 to German Syntec. Let's get this straight though while we're on the piston slap issure again. If the slap goes away as the engine warms up, it's NOT harmful. GM made them loose for when we all romp on our cars time and again where things get really hot and the pistons expanding. While other quiet motors may be wearing on the cylinder walls under extremem conditions, ours won't be from less friction. This is why any LS1 you tear down, you'll still find the original cross-hatch, even past 150k miles. I suspect that when the first 03/04 Cobra motors are torn down with this mileage, the same will not be true. Those motors are just too tight. Ask any owner who knows their stuff.
Jason
Jason
OK, but that begs the question; if our motors are built that "loose" shouldn't GM/whomever be telling us to use higher viscosity oils like the euros use?? Or is it that our motors still have very "tight" tolerance crank/cam main bearings which require much thinner oil (as well as the small MPG/CAFE benefits from lower viscosity oils)? I always thought that the euros built their engines with "looser" tolerances so that at the sustained uber speeds they run on their highways, there was room for a thicker oil to get in between the bearings and protect them without breaking down as easily. Am I wrong on this?? Any engineers in here?
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My piston slap is louder with the Euro Castrol 0w30 compared the american 10w30. With non-synthetic oil the piston slap isn't there. When I once used Redline 10w40 it was the loudest with that oil.
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Originally Posted by Camaro99SS
Let's get this straight though while we're on the piston slap issure again. If the slap goes away as the engine warms up, it's NOT harmful.
Jason
Jason
Yep, we definetly got it straight. Warm piston slap here, and I dont have an 01/02 like most slap motors are. It is definetly something you can hear pretty easily, and if the amsoil helps quiet some, I will definetly give the amsoil a shot.
Originally Posted by BJM
I use my car regularly down to maybe 20 F. The difference in noise is tremendous, like nothing I have ever dealt with before. My other cars have to deal with the real winter, down to -30 F, the Camaro would sound like an old locomotive at those temperatures. At 20 F however, its a full 20 minutes before it sound like a normal car. Thanks again GM.
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originally ran mobil 1 5w-30, then went to pepboys (proline) 5w-30 and the piston slap got quieter, no change in valve train noise. now im running gc 0w-30 and my cold start up piston slap noise got louder but the valve train got much quieter. it also seems to use less oil. performance didnt change between any of the oils.
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FWIW, I've seen oil analysis reports from LS1s with piston slap and the engine wear numbers don't look bad, so it's more of an annoying noise than anything harmful to the engine's overall lifespan. Just turn up the radio.
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Here is my oil history, maybe others can add their experiences.
German Castrol 0W30 Nov 2004 - Cold weather around 30F, car slapped like crazy.
Pennzoil 10W30 May 2005 - quieted the car a lot but warm weather (60-70F) had already helped a lot anyway. Overall definitely quieter.
Royal Purple 10W30 Oct 2005 - Initially more noisy but after 2 days seemed to go back to what the Pennzoil did. Purple coulour was gone in the 400 km I used it.
Pennzoil 10W40 Oct 2005 - Noisiest oil I have ever heard. Sounded bad the instant I started it. Temperature (30-40F). I took it out after 2 days, way worse than the Pennzoil 10W30. Valve train made tickity noises even when warm.
Amsoil 10W30 Oct 2005 - Seems good so far, a bit better than Royal Purple. Temperature in the low 30's F today and rattle is bad (oil can only do so much) but its better than the other oils. When warmed car sounds fine, nice and smooth.
German Castrol 0W30 Nov 2004 - Cold weather around 30F, car slapped like crazy.
Pennzoil 10W30 May 2005 - quieted the car a lot but warm weather (60-70F) had already helped a lot anyway. Overall definitely quieter.
Royal Purple 10W30 Oct 2005 - Initially more noisy but after 2 days seemed to go back to what the Pennzoil did. Purple coulour was gone in the 400 km I used it.
Pennzoil 10W40 Oct 2005 - Noisiest oil I have ever heard. Sounded bad the instant I started it. Temperature (30-40F). I took it out after 2 days, way worse than the Pennzoil 10W30. Valve train made tickity noises even when warm.
Amsoil 10W30 Oct 2005 - Seems good so far, a bit better than Royal Purple. Temperature in the low 30's F today and rattle is bad (oil can only do so much) but its better than the other oils. When warmed car sounds fine, nice and smooth.
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Originally Posted by dailydriver
OK, but that begs the question; if our motors are built that "loose" shouldn't GM/whomever be telling us to use higher viscosity oils like the euros use?? Or is it that our motors still have very "tight" tolerance crank/cam main bearings which require much thinner oil (as well as the small MPG/CAFE benefits from lower viscosity oils)? I always thought that the euros built their engines with "looser" tolerances so that at the sustained uber speeds they run on their highways, there was room for a thicker oil to get in between the bearings and protect them without breaking down as easily. Am I wrong on this?? Any engineers in here?
Jason
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Originally Posted by Patman
FWIW, I've seen oil analysis reports from LS1s with piston slap and the engine wear numbers don't look bad, so it's more of an annoying noise than anything harmful to the engine's overall lifespan. Just turn up the radio. ![Happy](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/smilies/LS1Tech/gr_stretch.gif)
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I am probably luckier than most, my motor idles quite normally so I don;t get odd stares. My rattles happen only around 1500-2500 RPM.
I would happily give up a few horsepower to have the motor be quiet. Maybe I can trade my "high power block" to someone.
I would happily give up a few horsepower to have the motor be quiet. Maybe I can trade my "high power block" to someone.
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Originally Posted by Camaro99SS
The piston/wall clearances are different then main and bearing clearances. That's just an issue of machining specs. Bearing clearances is up to the person/machine assembling the motor. The LS1, like previous small blocks, is looser than most production when it comes to main and rod bearing clearances. This is why these motors generate the best wear numbers on 40 weight and near 40 weight oils. But in order to keep the bureaucrats at CAFE happy, U.S. automakers recommend thinner oils for gas mileage reasons.
Jason
Jason
If that's the case, does anyone make a decent 0W-40 synthetic, or is that not possible without killing it with viscosity improvers??
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I have Royal Purple 10W30 and I really didn't notice a difference from what ever the original owner had in it! The piston slap drives me crazy, but at 74k I think this motor would have blown up if it were really damaging! My engine gets a rattle/slap/noise precisely at 2000-2500 rpm regardless of temp but much quieter when warm, then just goes away all the way up to redline! It's getting cold up north and I've noticed the sound even more! After reading this thread I still can't make up my mind! What would be the best oil/weight to go? I guess a rebuild would be the only solution!
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Originally Posted by dailydriver
If that's the case, does anyone make a decent 0W-40 synthetic, or is that not possible without killing it with viscosity improvers??
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Originally Posted by dailydriver
If that's the case, does anyone make a decent 0W-40 synthetic, or is that not possible without killing it with viscosity improvers??
Jason
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Its true GC is a great bargain. I do believe it to be that best bet in terms of engine protection. but if its too embarassingly noisy, its not gonna be fun to drive. What good is it to have a well protected motor that you dont enjoy driving? I dont see it being the kind of thing where my engine will fail 50% faster because i started running amsoil or M1 vs. GC. If I can get 99% of the protection with another oil that will quiet my slap, its a worthy sacrafice to me... But if you dont have a noisy car with GC, theres no reason to get anything else.
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Originally Posted by Patman
Why don't you try 5w40? There are lots of good 5w40s out there. (Amsoil, Redline, Mobil 1, Castrol)
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Originally Posted by dailydriver
I guess you're right, that 5W difference (between a 0W-40 & a 5W-40) is probably not going to mean anything (especially in super high spec synthetics), even in <-10 degree start ups.
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just use the the 5W40 Amsoil and you will be fine, regardless of outside temps. It flows great in the cold and protects in high heat. It also quiets the slap down. What more could you want? Try it you won't be disappointed.
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Originally Posted by tirefryer
just use the the 5W40 Amsoil and you will be fine, regardless of outside temps. It flows great in the cold and protects in high heat. It also quiets the slap down. What more could you want? Try it you won't be disappointed.