Just Talked To Dart.....
Very cool that these guys are listening to the guys that are gonna be using there products!! BIG thumbs up to DART for the price and for already showing kick *** customer service..
wouldnt it be sweet to have a dart block that is alredy cast at a 4.125 bore
hopefully dart goes all out with these products delivering a full product line.
and keep the prices similiar to what the 5.0 guys are paying, like they are with these heads
good job DART
hopefully dart goes all out with these products delivering a full product line.
and keep the prices similiar to what the 5.0 guys are paying, like they are with these heads
good job DART
Originally Posted by Dart331Stroker
Well folks you guys didnt like the 11/32 valves so we are already making a change, although the first forty are already 11/32 and the guys who have them have no issues with them and love the heads, h.p. numbers will soon be floating around. Anyways we decided are going to go right to the 5/16 valve stem diameter and the projected valve weight should be less than the 8mm valves. This should create no disturbance and will still allow you guys to use you springs if you dont like the PSI springs we offer. All you will need is the correct retainer if ours doesnt work. The new retainers for our 11/32 valve were awesome and super light so I am sure the 5/16 piece will also be killer. They are made out of titanium and again are really trick!!
For those that want things a certain way, like using there stock parts, sure thats great buy them without the valve job and have your guys do the work, not a problem, we are flexible!
The valve debate has gone on long enough but to compare a stock valve weighs in at 99 grams, the valves we have weighed that we received from our valve supplier that replaced the LS1 stockers weighed 106 and our regular 11/32 valves we use in our small block heads both ford and chevy weigh 110. With the new 5/16 stuff we should be less than 99grams.
I know you guys have alot of concerns about valve weights, and it has been discussed alot, because of the hydraulic rollers this is an issue. Just to shed some light small fords use the larger 11/32 stems and super heavy hydraulic roller lifters and have no problems up to about 7200 and then the lifters kill the engines. With Crane drop in lifters with linkbars 7800-8000 rpm hasnt been an issue with the 11/32 valves.
Marine big block chevys with super long valves that are extremely heavy run forever making over 1400+ horsepower again with hydraulic rollers and 11/32 valves. There is several Big Chevy engines we know of running hydraulic rollers turning upwards of 7800-8000 rpm with big heavy 11/32 valves with a length of 5.475 and a head diameter of 2.300.
That said we are changing the heads to 5/16 and we will continue to make sure we offer a part that we feel is the best "out fo the box" head available.
We will also jump into the CNC ported versions later this year or early next year! Right now though we feel we are going to fill a market where people dont want to spend alot of money to build a good street strip engine, our out of the box heads will give them an oppurtunity at a lower cost alternative that will flat out meet their expectations.
If you would like pictures feel free to email darttech@dartheads.com I am not sure what you want out of the pictures but we will gladly forward them to you.
Gentlemen just wait until you start hearing results of guys who use these things you are not going to believe it...
For those that want things a certain way, like using there stock parts, sure thats great buy them without the valve job and have your guys do the work, not a problem, we are flexible!
The valve debate has gone on long enough but to compare a stock valve weighs in at 99 grams, the valves we have weighed that we received from our valve supplier that replaced the LS1 stockers weighed 106 and our regular 11/32 valves we use in our small block heads both ford and chevy weigh 110. With the new 5/16 stuff we should be less than 99grams.
I know you guys have alot of concerns about valve weights, and it has been discussed alot, because of the hydraulic rollers this is an issue. Just to shed some light small fords use the larger 11/32 stems and super heavy hydraulic roller lifters and have no problems up to about 7200 and then the lifters kill the engines. With Crane drop in lifters with linkbars 7800-8000 rpm hasnt been an issue with the 11/32 valves.
Marine big block chevys with super long valves that are extremely heavy run forever making over 1400+ horsepower again with hydraulic rollers and 11/32 valves. There is several Big Chevy engines we know of running hydraulic rollers turning upwards of 7800-8000 rpm with big heavy 11/32 valves with a length of 5.475 and a head diameter of 2.300.
That said we are changing the heads to 5/16 and we will continue to make sure we offer a part that we feel is the best "out fo the box" head available.
We will also jump into the CNC ported versions later this year or early next year! Right now though we feel we are going to fill a market where people dont want to spend alot of money to build a good street strip engine, our out of the box heads will give them an oppurtunity at a lower cost alternative that will flat out meet their expectations.
If you would like pictures feel free to email darttech@dartheads.com I am not sure what you want out of the pictures but we will gladly forward them to you.
Gentlemen just wait until you start hearing results of guys who use these things you are not going to believe it...
I all ready placed an order with jegs around 2 weeks ago. So, which heads/valves will they/I be getting? Thanks
On The Tree
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 102
Likes: 0
From: Suburbs of Detroit
Springs, decks and bigger chambers! The Springs we are using are made by PSI and they are the beehive style capable of handling lifts up to .625, those that might not be familiar with PSI they are the leader in aftermarket high end springs and supply just about everybody in this industry with their springs.
Using a standard 5/16 valve lock would be all that is needed if you change any of the parts being used.
We are working on getting some pictures on the sight that will show you more of the port layout however you really need to see this thing on the wet flow bench its awesome.
Al of our heads are about .550 thick, this has been our standard on everything we make, we have guys making over 2500+ horsepower and using our stuff in extreme situations. There is no need to have a deck thicker that .550 with our material, if we used lower grade materials then yes we would. Buy with confidence and know that we wouldnt make them if they were going to break in extreme usage, after all we are Dart not GM we are not into making stock parts!!
At this time there is no plans to make larger chambers, unsure why one would being aluminum with the heat dissipation a 11 to 1 engine can run on pump gas and not have any problems. That said there are factors to that so dont everyone take that as a general statement.
CNC versions will be after the first of the year.
All of the first 40 went to very specialized customers, and everything being made here on out gets the 5/16 valve sizes. Thanks
Using a standard 5/16 valve lock would be all that is needed if you change any of the parts being used.
We are working on getting some pictures on the sight that will show you more of the port layout however you really need to see this thing on the wet flow bench its awesome.
Al of our heads are about .550 thick, this has been our standard on everything we make, we have guys making over 2500+ horsepower and using our stuff in extreme situations. There is no need to have a deck thicker that .550 with our material, if we used lower grade materials then yes we would. Buy with confidence and know that we wouldnt make them if they were going to break in extreme usage, after all we are Dart not GM we are not into making stock parts!!
At this time there is no plans to make larger chambers, unsure why one would being aluminum with the heat dissipation a 11 to 1 engine can run on pump gas and not have any problems. That said there are factors to that so dont everyone take that as a general statement.
CNC versions will be after the first of the year.
All of the first 40 went to very specialized customers, and everything being made here on out gets the 5/16 valve sizes. Thanks
On The Tree
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 102
Likes: 0
From: Suburbs of Detroit
Sorry forgot to say CNC versions will be the same cost as our current Pro 1 227 heads part number 11970040 for the bare heads and 11971143 for assembled. So see what you find those for and thats what the CNC heads will sell for!!!
Launching!
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 270
Likes: 0
From: Baton Rouge, LA
Dart331Stroker, Moxie, Tony Mamo @ AFR, and cary et performance:
Thanks for keeping the discussion on a professional level. Nothing turns me off from a product/company faster than when I see these kinds of threads degenerate into name calling and BS.
Competition kicks ***, capitalism rules, God bless America!
Thanks for keeping the discussion on a professional level. Nothing turns me off from a product/company faster than when I see these kinds of threads degenerate into name calling and BS.
Competition kicks ***, capitalism rules, God bless America!
Originally Posted by Dart331Stroker
CNC versions will be the same cost as our current Pro 1 227 heads part number 11970040 for the bare heads and 11971143 for assembled. So see what you find those for and thats what the CNC heads will sell for!!!
EACH! ha ha
On The Tree
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 102
Likes: 0
From: Suburbs of Detroit
CNC versions Just checking a few of the internet people who sell Dart, it looks like a set could be purchased for about $2200.00 for the pair. Ready to go with 5/16 valves, beehive springs, titanium retainers, and heat treat hardened locks.
With these new heads we will also have the options for the severe use racer, copper beryllium seats, titanium valves, etc....
With these new heads we will also have the options for the severe use racer, copper beryllium seats, titanium valves, etc....
On The Tree
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 112
Likes: 0
From: Boulder, CO
This is moot now that Dart's switching to 5/16, but since I did the numbers when I only read up to page 6, here it is anyway:
11/32" (8.73mm) is about 10% larger than 8mm, so all else being equal, the volume of the 11/32" valve stem is about 20% more than an 8mm valve stem, so it'd also weigh 20% more (just the stem). For a hypothetical valve stem about 5" long that's a perfect cylinder, a stem thickness of 8mm has a volume of 6.38cm^3, and a stem thickness of 11/32 has a volume of 7.6cm^3, a difference of 1.22cm^3. Steel is about 7 or 8 grams per cm^3, so the mass difference would be about 9 or 10 grams.
So all else being equal, a valve with an 11/32" stem ought to be heavier than a valve with an 8mm stem, by 9-10 grams (about 10% of the mass of the total valve). Obviously if a different alloy is used it'll have a different density, (or you could use titanium, or hollow valve stems full of sodium like the LS6 valves, etc, etc), so it's very well possible that Dart's 11/32" valves were only 2gm more than some other 8mm valve, but in general that wouldn't be the case.
11/32" (8.73mm) is about 10% larger than 8mm, so all else being equal, the volume of the 11/32" valve stem is about 20% more than an 8mm valve stem, so it'd also weigh 20% more (just the stem). For a hypothetical valve stem about 5" long that's a perfect cylinder, a stem thickness of 8mm has a volume of 6.38cm^3, and a stem thickness of 11/32 has a volume of 7.6cm^3, a difference of 1.22cm^3. Steel is about 7 or 8 grams per cm^3, so the mass difference would be about 9 or 10 grams.
So all else being equal, a valve with an 11/32" stem ought to be heavier than a valve with an 8mm stem, by 9-10 grams (about 10% of the mass of the total valve). Obviously if a different alloy is used it'll have a different density, (or you could use titanium, or hollow valve stems full of sodium like the LS6 valves, etc, etc), so it's very well possible that Dart's 11/32" valves were only 2gm more than some other 8mm valve, but in general that wouldn't be the case.
On The Tree
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 102
Likes: 0
From: Suburbs of Detroit
Valve weight Yes in comparison to a stock LS6 valve versus a Dart 11/32 Severe Racing style valve is about 10 grams or so. The stock LS6 valve that has a hollow stem, and the underside of the valve has been cut to reduce weight also. The comparison was done with a valve being built that was comparable to a Dart valve. But again it doesnt really matter at this point as we have changed it. Just a side bar note, this change will now set us back on assemblies due to lead times from suppliers. We figure the valves to be about 8-12 weeks out. Will keep everyone posted. Thanks 
Originally Posted by Dart331Stroker
Just checking a few of the internet people who sell Dart, it looks like a set could be purchased for about $2200.00 for the pair. Ready to go with 5/16 valves, beehive springs, titanium retainers, and heat treat hardened locks.
With these new heads we will also have the options for the severe use racer, copper beryllium seats, titanium valves, etc....
With these new heads we will also have the options for the severe use racer, copper beryllium seats, titanium valves, etc....
(EDIT) sorry i assume thats for a pair of cnc'd race prep LS1 assembled head.
yeah thanks 69 i had to re-read, i been following close to this thread and hanging on to my money for these heads, but the futher they keep gettin pushed back the harder it is to wait, but i guess the good thing is the season is almost over so there will be plenty of time to wrench this winter.
Originally Posted by SStrokerAce
Just put a order in on a assembled set for a customer and going to run a fully race ported set on race motor... I like what I see with these heads.
Bret
Bret
