Just Talked To Dart.....
I think these popcorn posts you guys are posting might discourage these knowledge filled minds from continuing this very interesting and helpful discussion. It might make them think that all you want to see is mud slinging. Hopefully this doesnt spiral down into that.
Originally Posted by SporkLover
I think these popcorn posts you guys are posting might discourage these knowledge filled minds from continuing this very interesting and helpful discussion. It might make them think that all you want to see is mud slinging. Hopefully this doesnt spiral down into that.
On The Tree
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 102
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From: Suburbs of Detroit
Afr Tony, John here I know your background and I know you know mine. My goal was to illustrate flow numbers are not the tell all when deciding what heads to buy. Merely an instance was noted, we are not on here to mudsling and I wont get into that. You and I have had a working relationship in the past and I know we will still in the future. Heck Greg and Myself werent even on this board until recently and it was only to answer some questions.
As for the weight of the valves, with the valves we have made for us there would be about 2 grams difference, and with Manleys 5/16 to 11/32 stuff they range from 1.5 grams to as much as 6 gram depending on the valve.
11/32 valves have been used in small block engines with camshafts over .700 lift and run up to 8000+ rpm without any problems for along time.
As for the weight of the valves, with the valves we have made for us there would be about 2 grams difference, and with Manleys 5/16 to 11/32 stuff they range from 1.5 grams to as much as 6 gram depending on the valve.
11/32 valves have been used in small block engines with camshafts over .700 lift and run up to 8000+ rpm without any problems for along time.
Originally Posted by Dart331Stroker
Tony, John here I know your background and I know you know mine. My goal was to illustrate flow numbers are not the tell all when deciding what heads to buy. Merely an instance was noted, we are not on here to mudsling and I wont get into that. You and I have had a working relationship in the past and I know we will still in the future. Heck Greg and Myself werent even on this board until recently and it was only to answer some questions.
As for the weight of the valves, with the valves we have made for us there would be about 2 grams difference, and with Manleys 5/16 to 11/32 stuff they range from 1.5 grams to as much as 6 gram depending on the valve.
11/32 valves have been used in small block engines with camshafts over .700 lift and run up to 8000+ rpm without any problems for along time.
As for the weight of the valves, with the valves we have made for us there would be about 2 grams difference, and with Manleys 5/16 to 11/32 stuff they range from 1.5 grams to as much as 6 gram depending on the valve.
11/32 valves have been used in small block engines with camshafts over .700 lift and run up to 8000+ rpm without any problems for along time.
No problem here....I'm not interested in any mudslinging as well and I tried to make a couple of points while keeping my post as professional as possible. Regarding the valve weights, obviously it is subject to the design of each valve, but when I compare our 2.02 LS1 valve to our 2.02 standard SBC stuff, with almost the exact same margin thickness there is a 9 gram disparity in weight. And while I certainly agree with you that an 11/32 valve poses no problems in an 8000 RPM solid roller engine, the hydraulic roller stuff (a much higher percentage of LS1 applications) is much more finicky and sensitive to valve, spring, and rocker arm mass to run cleanly at higher RPM's before valve control becomes an issue.
The LS1 market is certainly large enough for all of us and I wish you guys luck launching your new product. I'm sure we will run into one another either at SEMA or PRI
Regards,
Tony
Last edited by Tony Mamo @ AFR; Sep 21, 2005 at 12:06 PM.
Originally Posted by SporkLover
I think these popcorn posts you guys are posting might discourage these knowledge filled minds from continuing this very interesting and helpful discussion. It might make them think that all you want to see is mud slinging. Hopefully this doesnt spiral down into that.
actually we are looking to learn a few things.... at least i know i am..... should have a lot of good tech info
Originally Posted by Dart331Stroker
Tony, John here I know your background and I know you know mine. My goal was to illustrate flow numbers are not the tell all when deciding what heads to buy. Merely an instance was noted, we are not on here to mudsling and I wont get into that. You and I have had a working relationship in the past and I know we will still in the future. Heck Greg and Myself werent even on this board until recently and it was only to answer some questions.
As for the weight of the valves, with the valves we have made for us there would be about 2 grams difference, and with Manleys 5/16 to 11/32 stuff they range from 1.5 grams to as much as 6 gram depending on the valve.
11/32 valves have been used in small block engines with camshafts over .700 lift and run up to 8000+ rpm without any problems for along time.
As for the weight of the valves, with the valves we have made for us there would be about 2 grams difference, and with Manleys 5/16 to 11/32 stuff they range from 1.5 grams to as much as 6 gram depending on the valve.
11/32 valves have been used in small block engines with camshafts over .700 lift and run up to 8000+ rpm without any problems for along time.
John not sure if this is proprietary information or not but regarding the weight difference of the valves....
Earlier it was stated that it was a stainless steel severe duty valve, I interpret that to mean solid stemmed valve, no tricks like hollow stem. If the typical disparity between LS1 and SBC valves is 9-12 grams, what exactly is allowing you to narrow that down to 2 grams? Im not disputing that you have actually performed that feat, just wondering what you did different. If that is proprietary then I will understand why you can't answer.
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oooooooooo its really gettin good.............ding ding round two 
LOL just messin I know a real popcorn post when I see one and this is just a simple debate 
On The Tree
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 101
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Originally Posted by SStrokerAce
They put the guides in before they do a valve job.
Bret
Bret
Yeah, got that....but if they put in the guides, do the valve job and send it to you, then you hone the guides for an 8mm valve YOU NOW HAVE TO GO BACK AND RE-DO THE VALVEJOB. Sinking the valve in the meantime, meaning these heads will flow EVEN LESS then they already do...and all of this because they didn't want to use what is undoubtedly considered to be the industry standard for these motors.
Just seems like that is allot of work, think I might get another set of reworked stockers, or maybe the new E.T.P.
or hell, even the cookie cutter AFR. If they only picked up 2 grams with the larger valve, why no explanation how? 
I wish that DART would take and post up some close up pics of the "Pro Ls1" heads.. Kind of like how TSP has done it in the past.. (which were beneficial to us that are not "up to date" on the world of heads)
I dont know **** about the weight of these valves and how they play a factor into all of this, but I hope I didnt make a mistake in purchasing a set all ready before they got "proven" yet.
What the hell does SBC mean anyhow?
I dont know **** about the weight of these valves and how they play a factor into all of this, but I hope I didnt make a mistake in purchasing a set all ready before they got "proven" yet.
What the hell does SBC mean anyhow?
On The Tree
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 101
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by waterbug1999
What the hell does SBC mean anyhow?
LOL, J/k these were the motors that paved the way for what you are currently driving.
S=Small
B=Block
C=Chevy
Standard 23 degree heads versus the LS-1 15 degree....283, 302, 305,307, 327, 350, 400 were all derivatives of this motor platform. Started in the 50's Evolution brought about the different sizes, leading into the LT-1 in 1992 vettes and 93-up F-body's. In 1997 the dropped the LS-1 into a vette and 1998 for the F-bodays, with the entire truck line to leave the standard Small Chevy motor variation they were using and lead into the Ls-style a short while later.
A quick history lesson that can be thanked for the world of performance you now have at your disposal, in the automotive world the SBC is to the LS-1 what colonies were to our current USA.....evolution my friend.
Originally Posted by uberLS-1
tell me your not serious! It's the phone company, they are with Yahoo.....
LOL, J/k these were the motors that paved the way for what you are currently driving.
S=Small
B=Block
C=Chevy
Standard 23 degree heads versus the LS-1 15 degree....283, 302, 305,307, 327, 350, 400 were all derivatives of this motor platform. Started in the 50's Evolution brought about the different sizes, leading into the LT-1 in 1992 vettes and 93-up F-body's. In 1997 the dropped the LS-1 into a vette and 1998 for the F-bodays, with the entire truck line to leave the standard Small Chevy motor variation they were using and lead into the Ls-style a short while later.
A quick history lesson that can be thanked for the world of performance you now have at your disposal, in the automotive world the SBC is to the LS-1 what colonies were to our current USA.....evolution my friend.
LOL, J/k these were the motors that paved the way for what you are currently driving.
S=Small
B=Block
C=Chevy
Standard 23 degree heads versus the LS-1 15 degree....283, 302, 305,307, 327, 350, 400 were all derivatives of this motor platform. Started in the 50's Evolution brought about the different sizes, leading into the LT-1 in 1992 vettes and 93-up F-body's. In 1997 the dropped the LS-1 into a vette and 1998 for the F-bodays, with the entire truck line to leave the standard Small Chevy motor variation they were using and lead into the Ls-style a short while later.
A quick history lesson that can be thanked for the world of performance you now have at your disposal, in the automotive world the SBC is to the LS-1 what colonies were to our current USA.....evolution my friend.
I guess I had a brain fart and when I saw "SBC" (I am in the electronics/communication business) I could'nt think of what else it could stand for. But, now it rings a bell. lol
So, the saying is "Heartbeat of America" "Like a rock" = Chevrolet..
SO DART, ANY " NEWS " ON THE HEADS YET??
On The Tree
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 101
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by waterbug1999
I guess I had a brain fart and when I saw "SBC" (I am in the electronics/communication business) I could'nt think of what else it could stand for. But, now it rings a bell. lol
So, the saying is "Heartbeat of America" "Like a rock" = Chevrolet..
SO DART, ANY " NEWS " ON THE HEADS YET??
So, the saying is "Heartbeat of America" "Like a rock" = Chevrolet..
SO DART, ANY " NEWS " ON THE HEADS YET??