Another stock rocker question
#1
TECH Apprentice
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Platte City, MO
Posts: 325
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Another stock rocker question
I'm just finishing up my prc heads/cam swap and need to make a decision. The reason I'm doing the swap is because I bent a pushrod and decided it was time for more power anyway. Do you guys think I should go ahead and put new rocker arms in or do you think they'll be alright? The car has 63k miles on it, 15k have been pretty hard. Any opinions? If you guys think I should change them what would you recommend for a stock style replacement? TIA!
#2
Launching!
iTrader: (11)
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Norman, Oklahoma
Posts: 209
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
To be honest the stockers are pretty good units, other than the occasional bearing falling out I can't say anything bad about them at all.
I would only upgrade if I was going adjustable, the prices for a decent setup start at around $600.00 and up.
I would only upgrade if I was going adjustable, the prices for a decent setup start at around $600.00 and up.
#4
Launching!
iTrader: (10)
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Queen Creek, AZ
Posts: 288
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
you could replace the trunion bearings with harland sharps
http://www.harlandsharp.com/bolton3.htm
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-internal-engine/211917-modified-ls1-rocker-arms-new-bearings.html
http://www.harlandsharp.com/bolton3.htm
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-internal-engine/211917-modified-ls1-rocker-arms-new-bearings.html
#6
10 Second Club
iTrader: (12)
Originally Posted by SAM98WS6
Good rockers will give you more power and RELIABILITY
Start getting into insane spring rates/lobe profiles and any OEM/aftermarket rocker can fail.
JMO based on the real world as I know it.......
Trending Topics
#8
TECH Fanatic
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: harrisburg, pa
Posts: 1,205
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by LowETz
Not neccessarily true. Stock rockers are good peices, and are made/designed to operate efficiently/reliably for a LOT of miles.
Start getting into insane spring rates/lobe profiles and any OEM/aftermarket rocker can fail.
JMO based on the real world as I know it.......
Start getting into insane spring rates/lobe profiles and any OEM/aftermarket rocker can fail.
JMO based on the real world as I know it.......
#9
TECH Apprentice
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Platte City, MO
Posts: 325
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by JoeyGC5
About time you start working on that car T. Stock rockers are fine, but if you want peice of mind, go Jesel
Hey Joey, I haven't talked to you for a while. I haven't been home from school much so I started getting withdrawals from my car. I've been going home a lot on weekends trying to get this thing put back together. I'm probably going to stick with the stock rockers even though I'd like to get some Jesels or Harland Sharps. I'll try and give you a call one weekend when I'm home and not running around (My little bro is playing iron man on the highschool football team and it's looking like they're gonna end up playing in the state game again this year!). I'm coming back for the whole Christmas break so I'm gonna be playing with the car when I'm not working.
Anyone have any personal experience with the Harland sharp pieces? I read a thread on here the other day (can't remember if it were the HS parts or the Jesels) but another member had one break and jack his car up?
#10
TECH Addict
iTrader: (24)
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: St Joe, MO
Posts: 2,645
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by TMar99Z28
I'm coming back for the whole Christmas break so I'm gonna be playing with the car when I'm not working.
Anyone have any personal experience with the Harland sharp pieces? I read a thread on here the other day (can't remember if it were the HS parts or the Jesels) but another member had one break and jack his car up?
Anyone have any personal experience with the Harland sharp pieces? I read a thread on here the other day (can't remember if it were the HS parts or the Jesels) but another member had one break and jack his car up?
#11
TECH Apprentice
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Platte City, MO
Posts: 325
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by JoeyGC5
Don't have any experience with the Harland Sharps, they look like nice pieces though. Let me know when you get back. Agent ever get his car going?
#12
10 Second Club
iTrader: (12)
Originally Posted by SAM98WS6
I said aftermarket more efficient and reliable. stock are barely even acceptable for a stock motor because several people have had them fail. Come to the real world where everyone else is.
So just how many stock rockers out of the tens of THOUSANDs produced have failed? Several?
Can we say without doubt that these iscolated incidents(given the large quantity produced)were not a direct result of age/spring pressures/lobe lifts, or even user/intaller error, and failed because they are barely acceptable?
How many aftermarket parts out of the thousand's produced have failed?
Just as many.
So, we've all seen the few threads about a stock rocker losing it's lunch. We've also seen the threads about aftermarket rockers breaking in HALF.
Stockers have their limits to be sure..... race parts can fail at nearly the same if not at a higher rate. I'm not saying that there are no benifits to an aftermarket peice, only that the stockers are more than suitable for the majority of the applications out there. I would venture to say there are more folks using the stockers in modified motors than not w/out issue.
FWIW.... I've run stock rockers in a 457/424 rw. 11 second motor.... beating the **** out of it on a regular basis for FIVE years w/NO rocker issues at all.
I guess they really are barely acceptable.
THIS my friend is the REAL world..... not an internet board where everything you READ is gospel.
Peace-
Last edited by LowETz; 11-16-2005 at 07:20 AM.
#13
TECH Fanatic
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: harrisburg, pa
Posts: 1,205
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by LowETz
"Barely even acceptable for a stock motor"?
So just how many stock rockers out of the tens of THOUSANDs produced have failed? Several?
Can we say without doubt that these iscolated incidents(given the large quantity produced)were not a direct result of age/spring pressures/lobe lifts, or even user/intaller error, and failed because they are barely acceptable?
How many aftermarket parts out of the thousand's produced have failed?
Just as many.
So, we've all seen the few threads about a stock rocker losing it's lunch. We've also seen the threads about aftermarket rockers breaking in HALF.
Stockers have their limits to be sure..... race parts can fail at nearly the same if not at a higher rate. I'm not saying that there are no benifits to an aftermarket peice, only that the stockers are more than suitable for the majority of the applications out there. I would venture to say there are more folks using the stockers in modified motors than not w/out issue.
FWIW.... I've run stock rockers in a 457/424 rw. 11 second motor.... beating the **** out of it on a regular basis for FIVE years w/NO rocker issues at all.
I guess they really are barely acceptable.
THIS my friend is the REAL world..... not an internet board where everything you READ is gospel.
Peace-
So just how many stock rockers out of the tens of THOUSANDs produced have failed? Several?
Can we say without doubt that these iscolated incidents(given the large quantity produced)were not a direct result of age/spring pressures/lobe lifts, or even user/intaller error, and failed because they are barely acceptable?
How many aftermarket parts out of the thousand's produced have failed?
Just as many.
So, we've all seen the few threads about a stock rocker losing it's lunch. We've also seen the threads about aftermarket rockers breaking in HALF.
Stockers have their limits to be sure..... race parts can fail at nearly the same if not at a higher rate. I'm not saying that there are no benifits to an aftermarket peice, only that the stockers are more than suitable for the majority of the applications out there. I would venture to say there are more folks using the stockers in modified motors than not w/out issue.
FWIW.... I've run stock rockers in a 457/424 rw. 11 second motor.... beating the **** out of it on a regular basis for FIVE years w/NO rocker issues at all.
I guess they really are barely acceptable.
THIS my friend is the REAL world..... not an internet board where everything you READ is gospel.
Peace-
Dude you are missing the point. GOOD high quality Aftermarket Rockers (jesel, Comp Pro Mags) not only give more power because of reduced friction etc..but they have much higher reliability than stock...thats the reason to upgrade...and thats what he was asking. You cant correlate stock rockers vs. aftermarket on a stock motor...because no one does that. If you look at Aftermarket rockers on a big cam and their failures you have to factor in improperly adjusted failure and other factors...so lets not compare stock vs. aftermarket. My current cam has EXTREMELY agressive lobes and my Pro Mags (along with comp R lifters) are holding up fine. I had stock rockers fail with a T1 and slightly more agressive custom cam. Why take the chance especially since he can upgrade?
You could make more power with Aftermarket. I hope one of your stockers never lets loose...its a bad feeling and easily avoidable.
It doesnt matter what you or I run either...it has to do with stock rocker failures just by people on this board...dozens and dozens. Real world is stockers have much higher failure rates..by people that really drive their cars...they are fine for "stock" LS1s in trucks...but as soon as you start pushing them by racing and rpms ...they have a breaking point much lower than aftermarket....thats a fact. I run the stock rockers on my Avalanche...because I dont race or over rev it but if I ever have it apart...they are getting changed. My buddy that works at a Chevy dealer has seen LS1s come in with broken stock rockers...it happens.
#14
FormerVendor
iTrader: (33)
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Lake in the Hills, IL
Posts: 5,052
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Harland Sharp full rollers $360.00 are the way I would go. But if you absolutly do not want to go that way at least do our bearing conversion on the stockers $245.00
Nate
Nate
#16
TECH Apprentice
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Platte City, MO
Posts: 325
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Nasty N8
Harland Sharp full rollers $360.00 are the way I would go. But if you absolutly do not want to go that way at least do our bearing conversion on the stockers $245.00
Nate
Nate
#17
10 Second Club
iTrader: (12)
SAM98WS6-
Dude.... I'm not "missing" the point. Really.
I'm not corrolating the difference between stock/aftermarket on a stock motor.
I NEVER said GOOD aftermarket rockers had no merrit or were not needed in aggressive spring rate/lift/rpm applications < (KEY words in my first post).
What I WAS trying to do was to say that for the MAJORITY of the run of the mill H/C NA motors, an aftermarket rocker capable of dealing w/the loads of a high reving, high lift, high spring rate was not necessary(IMO), and that a blanket statement such as the one you posted is not necessarily gospel. Realize that not everyone is using monster cams, high spring rates, and twisting their motors to the moon. That is all.
To say that your stocker failed as will all other stockers b/c of the lift involved w/a T1, and that user error needed to be factored in with respect to an aftermarket failure is somewhat of a biased personal opinion, and quite honestly a bit narrow minded(IMO).
I hate it for anyone who's broken parts. There will always be parts failures when modifying anything that is pushed to the limit, and should be expected. That is not to say you don't install what's neccessary to limit the possibility of failure, but there is such a thing as overkill when dealing with applications that are not upwards of "heavily" modified or extreme.
Seems everybody subscribes to the bigger is better philosophy in an effort to achieve big #'s, w/out paying attention to the details of the combo. Why does a smaller brand "X" cam end up making more power than the larger brand "Y" cam? The details.
Again FWIW, I(as you put it)really drive my car. I am only stateing the facts as I know them from my years of personal experience with my motors and those of others.
Sorry for the rant.... I'm done and am now bowing out gracefully.
Peace-
Dude.... I'm not "missing" the point. Really.
I'm not corrolating the difference between stock/aftermarket on a stock motor.
I NEVER said GOOD aftermarket rockers had no merrit or were not needed in aggressive spring rate/lift/rpm applications < (KEY words in my first post).
What I WAS trying to do was to say that for the MAJORITY of the run of the mill H/C NA motors, an aftermarket rocker capable of dealing w/the loads of a high reving, high lift, high spring rate was not necessary(IMO), and that a blanket statement such as the one you posted is not necessarily gospel. Realize that not everyone is using monster cams, high spring rates, and twisting their motors to the moon. That is all.
To say that your stocker failed as will all other stockers b/c of the lift involved w/a T1, and that user error needed to be factored in with respect to an aftermarket failure is somewhat of a biased personal opinion, and quite honestly a bit narrow minded(IMO).
I hate it for anyone who's broken parts. There will always be parts failures when modifying anything that is pushed to the limit, and should be expected. That is not to say you don't install what's neccessary to limit the possibility of failure, but there is such a thing as overkill when dealing with applications that are not upwards of "heavily" modified or extreme.
Seems everybody subscribes to the bigger is better philosophy in an effort to achieve big #'s, w/out paying attention to the details of the combo. Why does a smaller brand "X" cam end up making more power than the larger brand "Y" cam? The details.
Again FWIW, I(as you put it)really drive my car. I am only stateing the facts as I know them from my years of personal experience with my motors and those of others.
Sorry for the rant.... I'm done and am now bowing out gracefully.
Peace-