Cary@Perf-Induction

iTrader: (1)

even though the flows don't mean a whole lot, the numbers are quite a bit more that 7-12 off, at least what we tested here. the dart head is a nice out of the box head though, can't argue that. comparing the 215 to the dart 225 isn't really going to be comparable as far as valve size goes. 225 to 225 would be a little more comparable. I have nothing to gripe about the darts though. It looks like it will be a good head for us to use instead of the ls6 casting. look for it soon.

rjw

iTrader: (3)

When you say a little more off, was it much more off? Intake, exhaust or both?

The Dart (advertised) exhaust numbers actually look a bit better than the ETP 215's, Is this all in the larger exhaust valve? Or just hype?

Valve size on your 215's are 2.04/1.57 225's 2.08/1.57 (Is this correct?)

Dart 225 is 2.05/1.6

The Dart chamber looks closer to the ETP shape than to the OEM castings.

With a stock bore engine(3.9) is there room (on the Darts) to unshroud the valves a little?

The cast ports on the Dart heads look a bit rough. It seems as though the port and bowl area could be cleaned up pretty easily.

Note: Not stirring the pot. Just curious, in that I need heads for an application that might benefit more from good exhaust flow. Also, not looking to go too exotic. I would like to keep the OEM valvetrain geometry in tact.

Wet 1

iTrader: (4)

I guess I am fu@king blind!!! I have to pull that hood from over my eyes.

Thanks.

Malihoochie

SStrokerAce

iTrader: (2)

215 ET vs. a ported Dart 205 with larger valves would be a better comparison, at least they would be in the same price range then.

Bret

Craig@ETPerformance

iTrader: (1)

By:

rjw

When you say a little more off, was it much more off? Intake, exhaust or both?

The Dart (advertised) exhaust numbers actually look a bit better than the ETP 215's, Is this all in the larger exhaust valve? Or just hype?

Valve size on your 215's are 2.04/1.57 225's 2.08/1.57 (Is this correct?)

Dart 225 is 2.05/1.6

The Dart chamber looks closer to the ETP shape than to the OEM castings.

With a stock bore engine(3.9) is there room (on the Darts) to unshroud the valves a little?

The cast ports on the Dart heads look a bit rough. It seems as though the port and bowl area could be cleaned up pretty easily.

Note: Not stirring the pot. Just curious, in that I need heads for an application that might benefit more from good exhaust flow. Also, not looking to go too exotic. I would like to keep the OEM valvetrain geometry in tact.

Our valve size is a 2.040/1.570 on the 215 cylinder heads. From looks the chambers are close in looks, but not design. The Dart's and our ETP casting are more of a "Fast Burn" or " Modern" chamber than stock. A 1.570", in most cases, will out perform a 1.600" valve, on a 3.900" bore due to shrouding, sometimes it ends up a trade off between peak numbers, aka glory numbers, and a low lift numbers. Our geometry is set up to keep the rocker pivot point in the center of the valve, which gets eliminates any side loading of the valve. In a street application with our heads that becomes a non-issue using our stand.



215 ET vs. a ported Dart 205 with larger valves would be a better comparison, at least they would be in the same price range then.

Bret

Our 215 is designed to compete against the AFR 205 and Dart 205 cylinder head. An as cast cylinder head will be less expensive than a CNC machined cylinder head any day of the week. With CNC you have the ability of repeat machining head after head than a hand ported set.

If there is a fair comparison let CNC'd versions of ETP,AFR & DART's 225's from every company get out before throwing a blank statement out. Time will tell in this whole battle of good, better and best.

Thank you,
Craig

rjw

iTrader: (3)

I'm a little confused, or maybe I am mis-reading. When you say " the chambers are close in looks but not design" are you comparing ETP with Dart, or ETP with OEM?

I ask this, because you go on to say that the ETP and Dart are more of a fast burn design while the OEM is not.

I see the similarities between the Dart and ETP chambers and how they differ from OEM.

I am still curious to know if the valves (dart) can be unshrouded. While it looks like they can to me, I am only going on pictures.

In any case your larger heads look like the ticket for my 427 Xmas present.

427

iTrader: (3)

Our comparison testing is based on value/HP. We are trying to find a head that can deliver a good value/price, while meeting our HP goals.

Kurt

SStrokerAce

iTrader: (2)

Yep, that's where my comment came from before. Now add into that if the castings can also be a good foundation for porting and you are doing even better.

Craig,

Starting off with a $1250 set of heads and spending $1000 to port them pretty much puts them in the ballpark of the CNC aftermarket heads out there.

Now where you spend the $1000 to port them is the key. I fully understand the benefits of CNC porting, or maching since I look at 4 CNC machines in the shop everyday, at the same time good hand porting can make the most out of a specific application when you deviate from the norm, which is what I'm more interested.

Bret

Dart331Stroker

Kurt any updates on the dyno testing????

427

iTrader: (3)

The heads are getting a little tune-up on the ports as well as a 2.08 valve. We are going to PRI next week, but there might be more testing on Monday or Tuesday.


Kurt

Ed Curtis

...But the Dart heads start off "bare" at $950 per pair and $1630 per pair complete. Then add the CNC porting from that price (as well as good hardware) and they're the same as other CNC heads already out there.

Ed

SStrokerAce

iTrader: (2)

$1650? More like under $1300 complete, give me $1000 worth of porting from someone who knows what they are doing and it's not even a contest.

ETP = 215 - 2.040/1.570 Retail $2399.00, 225 - 2.080/1.600 Retail $2475.00
AFR = $2200-$2400

That leaves you with $1000-$1200 for porting.

Nothing against ya Ed, but I'd put my money there before I ran the CNC castings for that much coin.

FWIW I heard that these 5.3L ported castings that went up against the bare darts in this test are supposed to move around 320cfm, so those Darts work pretty dam well for not moving as much wind.

Bret

MUSTANGEATER

iTrader: (10)

They raised their prices homey

from Jegs

http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/store...tegoryId=29493


I would think that the Dart's with a really good porter, Jeff from Modern, Larry Meaux etc... would probably make a better head ,but without actual data (yet) that's just another opinion.

rjw

iTrader: (3)

One thing that the Darts do bring to the table is a good head at a decent price for anyone on a budget.

If you can budget $1300 or $1600, you can buy these heads. Should you wish to upgrade later, then you can take em off and have them ported.

So the initial ante is not that bad, considering what it costs for a set of NEW LS6 heads, for example.

Just another good option.

AINT SKEERED

iTrader: (2)

I see, I thought the price went up on the 205's and 225's. For 1300 I would buy the 205's and spend the other 300 or so getting tehm cleaned up by Larry Meaux. Better then the 225's with a smaller valve and runner. although It would probably cost a little more tehn 300 for meaux to touch them.

SStrokerAce

iTrader: (2)

Gotcha....

Anyways the guys I have talked to who have seen the Darts say thats what they have been looking for. They have been welding up the ports in LS6 castings to get them to do the same thing the Darts do out of the box. The other aftermarket castings out there dont have this, so it would be very interesting to see what these heads could do. I'm sure Larry could get some awesome results out of them along with a couple of other guys that you don't commonly hear about on here. (reason being that they have more work than they can do now anyways, so why advertise for more work)

Bret

383ss

iTrader: (14)

hope this isn't too much off topic, but was that edlebrock intake cast or did you do any port work to it? I'm considering running the same combo, dart 225's and an edlebrock single plane. I'm a little dissaopinted if it only picked up 10fwhp over an LS2 intake. sounds like that is about equivelent to a FAST 90.

any more progress on Porting the DART's?

Brandon Boomhauer

iTrader: (10)

nice comparison Kurt.
I was expecting some more out of the carb intake up top honestly, but it does show where it begins to shine...

Dart331Stroker

The manifold was an out of the box manifold. The SAE corrective factor really makes this motor look to be down in power compared to what you guys have seen on chassis dynos and such. The whole factor here is to compare another companies (one that is mentioned often on here) cnc fully ported heads versus a run of the mill as cast Dart head. Dart is going to offer fully ported heads that will be priced right in line with the rest and after looking at how well the as cast does versus ported heads, Dart should be fine in the cnc market.