Stroker Guys and Engine Techs Please Help
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Jan 2005
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Stroker Guys and Engine Techs Please Help I am getting SDPC to build a 422 Iron Block. I am going to have a 4.040 Bore 4.125 Stroke motor. I need some help with parts selection.
Stuff I already own
2002 TA Convertible 6 speed
255 lph fuel pump and 42 lb injectors
1 7/8 headers to true duals w/ cutouts on the headers
Full BMR Suspension (all the goodies)
Spec 3I Clutch Billet Flywheel
12 Bolt Spool 4.11 Gears
6 Point roll cage
Stuff I am thinking about buying.
Fast 90 and Nick Williams TB
Patriot LS6 Stage III Heads 2.08 IN 1.60 EX 321@ 600
TSP Texas Giant Cam: 248/254, .629"/.622", 113 LSA
Denny's NR Driveshaft
I want to run low 10's all motor Please help me do it.
I drive this car on the street also so I would like to stay with a hydraulic cam.
Thanks,
Earl
Stuff I already own
2002 TA Convertible 6 speed
255 lph fuel pump and 42 lb injectors
1 7/8 headers to true duals w/ cutouts on the headers
Full BMR Suspension (all the goodies)
Spec 3I Clutch Billet Flywheel
12 Bolt Spool 4.11 Gears
6 Point roll cage
Stuff I am thinking about buying.
Fast 90 and Nick Williams TB
Patriot LS6 Stage III Heads 2.08 IN 1.60 EX 321@ 600
TSP Texas Giant Cam: 248/254, .629"/.622", 113 LSA
Denny's NR Driveshaft
I want to run low 10's all motor Please help me do it.
I drive this car on the street also so I would like to stay with a hydraulic cam.
Thanks,
Earl
The heads and cam choice will be your biggest factor in this area. I'd definately look at some of the bigger ET Performance offerings, maybe the 240 head with a little more cam. That's a big stroke and with a 6.125" rod or smaller you will see tons and tons of piston speed so don't be scared of the bigger cams out there, especially with a fast intake. Have you thought about the edlebrock victor single plain? It will be much much more work to get it to work but will feed that motor much better. Good luck.
Just an FYI, the comp cams camaro with sb2 heads (they are the equivalent of some of your larger ETP heads, probably with better exhaust numbers though) with a 230/236 112 lsa cam and 10.5 to 1 compression made 675 horsepower at 6800rpm with a single plane intake and 4150 style throttle body (like i'm suggesting to you). The motor was only 410 inches with a 3.75 stroke. Cam was a solid roller but only around .59x" lift, you definately could run that with the hydraulic technology out there. Car also only has 3.50 gears with a richmond 6 speed.
Just an FYI, the comp cams camaro with sb2 heads (they are the equivalent of some of your larger ETP heads, probably with better exhaust numbers though) with a 230/236 112 lsa cam and 10.5 to 1 compression made 675 horsepower at 6800rpm with a single plane intake and 4150 style throttle body (like i'm suggesting to you). The motor was only 410 inches with a 3.75 stroke. Cam was a solid roller but only around .59x" lift, you definately could run that with the hydraulic technology out there. Car also only has 3.50 gears with a richmond 6 speed.
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Jan 2005
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Maybe ET Performance or AFR cam chime in here, also if a sponsor has a better cam for this goal please check in also. I dont have a unlimited budget maybe in the $7000.00 range for the whole setup that is why I was thinking Patriot. For the money they are hard to beat. I dont want to do this twice either.
i would go with the afr 225cc mongoose heads. I just purchased them for a ls1 455ci motor that i am working on. The afr heads along with the fast90/nw throttle body would be the best setup. That is that i will be running. Give tony a call at afr. they are great people there and make the best heads out there.
Jon
Jon
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Well here are the flow numbers for the 240 cc ET Head on a 4.00" bore. Like I've said before with a pistons speed like that of the 4.125" stroke and 6.125" or smaller rod will have this head would probably be killer. I wouldn't worry about velocity too much, that motor is going to create plenty of velocity with that piston speed. Good luck. What are the flow numbers like on the AFR 225 head on a 4.00 bore?
Valve Lift Intake Exhaust Valve Lift
.100" 73 57 .100"
.200" 152 114 .200"
.300" 210 164 .300"
.400" 266 204 .400"
.500" 312 224 .500"
.550" 327 228 .550"
.600" 338 231 .600"
.650" 346 234 .650"
.700" 320 236 .700"
Valve Lift Intake Exhaust Valve Lift
.100" 73 57 .100"
.200" 152 114 .200"
.300" 210 164 .300"
.400" 266 204 .400"
.500" 312 224 .500"
.550" 327 228 .550"
.600" 338 231 .600"
.650" 346 234 .650"
.700" 320 236 .700"
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no way would I put patriot heads on it, go with some ET performance, DART or AFR 225's. if the AFR's ever come out in small chamber. I'd also go with 1 3/4 headers for a street setup. they will make close to the same peak hp unless you are spinning it over 6500. I like the cam. the clutch won't hold up to too much abuse, I've had 2 with my 408, so if you plan to go to the track a lot, I would get a stage 4 or 5 spec or go with a RAM VDS.
low 10's are going to be tough unless you are pretty light.
low 10's are going to be tough unless you are pretty light.
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Jan 2005
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Well mid 10's would be great also.
I appreciate all the help guys.
I think that I am about ready to finish my ordering.
I think that this cam looks like a good grind I was just thinking that it might need to be a little larger for my goal of low to mid tens.
Thanks,
Earl
I appreciate all the help guys.
I think that I am about ready to finish my ordering.
I think that this cam looks like a good grind I was just thinking that it might need to be a little larger for my goal of low to mid tens.
Thanks,
Earl
Originally Posted by 383ss
no way would I put patriot heads on it, go with some ET performance, DART or AFR 225's. if the AFR's ever come out in small chamber. I'd also go with 1 3/4 headers for a street setup. they will make close to the same peak hp unless you are spinning it over 6500. I like the cam. the clutch won't hold up to too much abuse, I've had 2 with my 408, so if you plan to go to the track a lot, I would get a stage 4 or 5 spec or go with a RAM VDS.
low 10's are going to be tough unless you are pretty light.
low 10's are going to be tough unless you are pretty light.
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Jan 2005
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I just talked to Texas Speed how do you guys think this cam will do.
I really think that with a 4.125 stroke this will be a torque monster so I will need a large cam to get the HP out of it.
257in 264ex duration 623in 646ex Lift on a 113 lsa
Thanks,
Earl
I really think that with a 4.125 stroke this will be a torque monster so I will need a large cam to get the HP out of it.
257in 264ex duration 623in 646ex Lift on a 113 lsa
Thanks,
Earl
Originally Posted by EarlsWS6
I just talked to Texas Speed how do you guys think this cam will do.
I really think that with a 4.125 stroke this will be a torque monster so I will need a large cam to get the HP out of it.
257in 264ex duration 623in 646ex Lift on a 113 lsa
Thanks,
Earl
I really think that with a 4.125 stroke this will be a torque monster so I will need a large cam to get the HP out of it.
257in 264ex duration 623in 646ex Lift on a 113 lsa
Thanks,
Earl
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 38
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DAPSUPRSLO I called ET Performance and I cannot afford their heads I wish that I could those flow numbers are sick. I just cant justify putting almost the same money in the heads as the shortblock. I might be able to someday so I am having SDPC to install headstuds in the block so heads will be a easy change over.
I would go with a diffrent intake, but that single plane will end up costing too much. I hope a large cam will help make up some.
Guys will this bigger cam fit?
And I talked to Kris and they can sonic test the block so I am now going 4.060 bore -- 427
Heads will be stock deck height.
3 cc valve reliefs ( or do I need larger notches )
pistons come 10 thousandths out of the hole
2.08 in 1.60 ex valves
and last but not least I was thinking 11.5 - 11.6 cr what do you guys think I should set my compression ratio at.
It has to run on 93 octane
Thanks,
Earl
I would go with a diffrent intake, but that single plane will end up costing too much. I hope a large cam will help make up some.
Guys will this bigger cam fit?
And I talked to Kris and they can sonic test the block so I am now going 4.060 bore -- 427
Heads will be stock deck height.
3 cc valve reliefs ( or do I need larger notches )
pistons come 10 thousandths out of the hole
2.08 in 1.60 ex valves
and last but not least I was thinking 11.5 - 11.6 cr what do you guys think I should set my compression ratio at.
It has to run on 93 octane
Thanks,
Earl
Last edited by EarlsWS6; Nov 23, 2005 at 08:29 AM.
Originally Posted by EarlsWS6
DAPSUPRSLO I called ET Performance and I cannot afford their heads I wish that I could those flow numbers are sick. I just cant justify putting almost the same money in the heads as the shortblock. I might be able to someday so I am having SDPC to install headstuds in the block so heads will be a easy change over.
I would go with a diffrent intake, but that single plane will end up costing too much. I hope a large cam will help make up some.
Guys will this bigger cam fit?
Heads will be stock deck height.
3 cc valve reliefs ( or do I need larger notches )
pistons come 10 thousandths out of the hole
2.08 in 1.60 ex valves
and last but not least I was thinking 11.5 - 11.6 cr what do you guys think I should set my compression ratio at.
It has to run on 93 octane
Thanks,
Earl
I would go with a diffrent intake, but that single plane will end up costing too much. I hope a large cam will help make up some.
Guys will this bigger cam fit?
Heads will be stock deck height.
3 cc valve reliefs ( or do I need larger notches )
pistons come 10 thousandths out of the hole
2.08 in 1.60 ex valves
and last but not least I was thinking 11.5 - 11.6 cr what do you guys think I should set my compression ratio at.
It has to run on 93 octane
Thanks,
Earl
Looks like you just added that little bit about the bigger bore there. With a 6.125" rod your r/s ratio will be 1.48 and with a 6.200" rod your r/s (rod/stroke) ratio will be 1.5. These numbers are on the lower end of acceptable r/s ratios from everything i've seen as well for a street motor. I would think about going that big on the iron block as it will reduce the integrity of the cylinder walls and with these low r/s ratios these cylinder walls will see much greater loads then something with a r/s ratio of 1.7 and up. Once again, talk to your engine builder about this and see what he is comfortable with doing.
Good articles on r/s ratios and their effects on power and longevity.
http://www.stahlheaders.com/Lit_Rod%20Length.htm
http://victorylibrary.com/mopar/rod-tech-c.htm
Good articles on r/s ratios and their effects on power and longevity.
http://www.stahlheaders.com/Lit_Rod%20Length.htm
http://victorylibrary.com/mopar/rod-tech-c.htm
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Jan 2005
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Man thats some good reading I just briefly looked over it. I will read the rest of it now.
As far as cylinder wall thickness the Kris @ SDPC said they will test enough blocks until they feel it is safe to bore .060 or if they cant find a good enough block I will step back down to 422. I dont think there will be a diffrence in power. I just really liked the Idea of 427. I also thought that it wouldnt be much, but it would bring my motor a little closer to square.
PS. Thanks for the articles
As far as cylinder wall thickness the Kris @ SDPC said they will test enough blocks until they feel it is safe to bore .060 or if they cant find a good enough block I will step back down to 422. I dont think there will be a diffrence in power. I just really liked the Idea of 427. I also thought that it wouldnt be much, but it would bring my motor a little closer to square.
PS. Thanks for the articles
Originally Posted by EarlsWS6
Man thats some good reading I just briefly looked over it. I will read the rest of it now.
As far as cylinder wall thickness the Kris @ SDPC said they will test enough blocks until they feel it is safe to bore .060 or if they cant find a good enough block I will step back down to 422. I dont think there will be a diffrence in power. I just really liked the Idea of 427. I also thought that it wouldnt be much, but it would bring my motor a little closer to square.
PS. Thanks for the articles
As far as cylinder wall thickness the Kris @ SDPC said they will test enough blocks until they feel it is safe to bore .060 or if they cant find a good enough block I will step back down to 422. I dont think there will be a diffrence in power. I just really liked the Idea of 427. I also thought that it wouldnt be much, but it would bring my motor a little closer to square.
PS. Thanks for the articles
