Ok...decided to pull the motor to junk the gapless rings
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Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Cecil County Raceway!!!
Ok...decided to pull the motor to junk the gapless rings After dealing with pretty bad oil control problems produced with what "most likely" can be attributed to Total Seal gapless rings, I've decided to pull the motor and install some "conventional" rings I bought from Diamond.
So I'll be down for a while so I can fix this problem along with some other issues I've had <img border="0" alt="[bang head]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_banghead.gif" />
1) Moser built my 9" wrong so the centerline of the yoke and the edge of the torque arm mount are nowhere near parallel (I measured 7 degree difference) making it damn near impossible to achieve negative pinion angle
2) Install 4.30 gears in the 9"
3) Attempt to fix "leaky" collectors on my dynatechs
4) replace valve seals (as a precautionary step)
5) Have my heads flowed (for my own interest)
should be a fun time <img border="0" alt="[cry]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cry.gif" />
So I'll be down for a while so I can fix this problem along with some other issues I've had <img border="0" alt="[bang head]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_banghead.gif" />
1) Moser built my 9" wrong so the centerline of the yoke and the edge of the torque arm mount are nowhere near parallel (I measured 7 degree difference) making it damn near impossible to achieve negative pinion angle
2) Install 4.30 gears in the 9"
3) Attempt to fix "leaky" collectors on my dynatechs
4) replace valve seals (as a precautionary step)
5) Have my heads flowed (for my own interest)
should be a fun time <img border="0" alt="[cry]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cry.gif" />
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From: Auburn, AL
Re: Ok...decided to pull the motor to junk the gapless rings Sorry to hear about your problems.
Maybe I should reconsider the rings I was planning to use in my 340 buildup. I was planning on the the Total Seals.
Maybe I should reconsider the rings I was planning to use in my 340 buildup. I was planning on the the Total Seals.
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Cecil County Raceway!!!
Re: Ok...decided to pull the motor to junk the gapless rings reconsider...
I've seen a few posts (do a search for total seals) that indicate oil control is an issue with those rings.
I've seen a few posts (do a search for total seals) that indicate oil control is an issue with those rings.
Re: Ok...decided to pull the motor to junk the gapless rings fireball, what are you doing to seal up your leaky dynatech headers? i have been fighting them for a while now. in the cold weather they are just plain gross. summer when the metal doesnt expand and contract as much it is not as bad.
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Cecil County Raceway!!!
Re: Ok...decided to pull the motor to junk the gapless rings i'll get back to you on that...need to research some options <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" />
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From: HTownRacing.com, TX
Re: Ok...decided to pull the motor to junk the gapless rings </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Fenris Ulf:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Fireball:
<strong> 3) Attempt to fix "leaky" collectors on my dynatechs </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Good luck, I struggled with those hos for a month or two before yanking them out <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="gr_sad.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">same here, i attempted to use copper RTV gasket maker along the inside of the merge collectors and evenly connnect them to the ends of your primaries. make sure its good and even and then wrap the outside gaps with the compound again. it works well until it breaks down from road wear.
all this or just weld them shut <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
i found it to be such a continuing hassle that it wasnt worth keeping them vs the new QTPs.
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Fireball:
<strong> 3) Attempt to fix "leaky" collectors on my dynatechs </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Good luck, I struggled with those hos for a month or two before yanking them out <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="gr_sad.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">same here, i attempted to use copper RTV gasket maker along the inside of the merge collectors and evenly connnect them to the ends of your primaries. make sure its good and even and then wrap the outside gaps with the compound again. it works well until it breaks down from road wear.
all this or just weld them shut <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
i found it to be such a continuing hassle that it wasnt worth keeping them vs the new QTPs.
Re: Ok...decided to pull the motor to junk the gapless rings There are some tricks to make Total Seal rings work. Do you know what kind of Oil rings you got with the set? If they are low tension oils then, you need to do some things to make them work.
Bret
Bret
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From: Cecil County Raceway!!!
Re: Ok...decided to pull the motor to junk the gapless rings well it doesn't appear to be coming from the bottom...looks like wierd vacuum signals are pulling oil from the top.
Similar problems with these rings have been posted in the past. I'll just open the wallet and buy gapped rings <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
Similar problems with these rings have been posted in the past. I'll just open the wallet and buy gapped rings <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
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From: Nottingham, Notts, England, UK
Re: Ok...decided to pull the motor to junk the gapless rings Well Brett, give us a clue then!! I'v bought several sets. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
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From: Cecil County Raceway!!!
Re: Ok...decided to pull the motor to junk the gapless rings I'm thinking of trying a metal-filled epoxy (high-temp) to seal the collectors.
http://www.mcmaster.com/catalog/108/html/3121.html
scroll down to the super-high-temp putties and look at the cast iron one. I bet that'll hold <img border="0" alt="[worship]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_hail.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[worship]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_hail.gif" />
http://www.mcmaster.com/catalog/108/html/3121.html
scroll down to the super-high-temp putties and look at the cast iron one. I bet that'll hold <img border="0" alt="[worship]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_hail.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[worship]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_hail.gif" />
Re: Ok...decided to pull the motor to junk the gapless rings Bring that puppy up here and I'll put some go in it <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> : <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
Re: Ok...decided to pull the motor to junk the gapless rings <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="gr_sad.gif" /> Sorry to hear you have to pull your motor Brian, let us know how things go. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />
Glenn
Glenn
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From: Objects in mirror no longer matter.
Re: Ok...decided to pull the motor to junk the gapless rings </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Fireball:
<strong> 3) Attempt to fix "leaky" collectors on my dynatechs </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Good luck, I struggled with those hos for a month or two before yanking them out <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="gr_sad.gif" />
<strong> 3) Attempt to fix "leaky" collectors on my dynatechs </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Good luck, I struggled with those hos for a month or two before yanking them out <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="gr_sad.gif" />
Re: Ok...decided to pull the motor to junk the gapless rings Man that sucks Brian. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="gr_sad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="gr_sad.gif" /> But just think in a few months i'll be side by side with you at the starting line at Cecil. and i'll wait for ya at the finish line <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> .
I hope you get your problems worked out soon and to see you back out there ripping up the track. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="gr_images/icons/cool.gif" />
I hope you get your problems worked out soon and to see you back out there ripping up the track. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="gr_images/icons/cool.gif" />
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Cecil County Raceway!!!
Re: Ok...decided to pull the motor to junk the gapless rings </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Pro Stock John:
<strong> Were you burning a lot of oil because of that? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">not from the headers...but from the rings/valveseals I believe
<strong> Were you burning a lot of oil because of that? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">not from the headers...but from the rings/valveseals I believe
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From: Nottingham, Notts, England, UK
Re: Ok...decided to pull the motor to junk the gapless rings I'm planning to use gapless second rings. They have been smoothed and radiused etc but there seem to be some concerns on the board about them so now I'm thinking about it.
Re: Ok...decided to pull the motor to junk the gapless rings The hell with those gapless rings.
I had them in a used LT1 motor with no problems. Seen nothing but problems in LS1's.
I had them in a used LT1 motor with no problems. Seen nothing but problems in LS1's.
