Lithium

iTrader: (47)

I was reading that you need to line it up dot to dot before you take the timing chain/cam out. I was not aware of this untill this evening.

With LS1howto's instructions it says to only line it up dot to dot after you install everything.

I really hope I did not **** anything up by taking every off.

I am screwed or OK?

ArcticZ28

iTrader: (14)

nah u're fine, that makes no sense to line up the dots before you take it out, you're going to be spinning it as you take it out anyways... you only need to worry about lining up the dots (timing) when you reinstall sprockets/chain. You're good this time

Lithium

iTrader: (47)

ahhhhhhhhhhhh relief. Thank you.

ArcticZ28

iTrader: (14)

Don't forget that lining it up dot-to-dot may not net you where you want to be. AKA you have to take into account if there is advance ground into your cam or not. Therefore, if 4 degrees of advance is ground in, then lining it up dot-to-dot the cam will actually be 4 degrees advanced. Not sure if you know about all this already, just wanted to make sure b/c it didn't seem like you were too sure about the timing configuration. Don't wanna get that thing back in there and having valves breaking off and sh*t Good luck.

rollinna65

iTrader: (18)

What cam are you installing?

Lithium

iTrader: (47)

yeah true...I have the MS3 along with some PRC heads...(rollmaster double roller)

I felt good about everything before I read a few posts saying that you need to get it lined up dot to dot before removal. I just wanted to be sure before I went any farther. Thanks though Artic I appreciate the help

MS3 is dot to dot correct?

ArcticZ28

iTrader: (14)

Well, there's really no certain way that any cam gets installed. You're probably referring to what *most* people install it as, but it really has a lot to do with your setup and where you want the power band. Although straight up is probably a safe bet and a good starting point, but you may want to advance/retard it in the future depending on your setup.

No prob for the help

Lithium

iTrader: (47)

MS3 is dot to dot correct?

Also... I got the stock chain sprocket off with the pulley puller. Now I got the new one lined up and on. I used the old sprocket to seat the new one on. Now my question is how tight do I need to get the new one on there? I got it seated all the way and on pretty tight. But when I tighten it more the engine turns maybe 8-10 degrees. Now is that ok to leave like that? How tight should I get it on there? Or should I just tighten it up to where the engine doesnt try to turn.

Just being realllllly cautious cause I dont want to **** anything up!

Thanks.

ArcticZ28

iTrader: (14)

I'm confused as to what you're tightening up... the bolts on the cam sprocket? Or are you referring to the crank sprocket that you are trying to seat on there as far as possible?

kpowr82

iTrader: (9)

The reason I chose to line up dot to dot before I pulled the cam gear is to make sure when everything goes back together, it goes back exactly the same. I'm trying to think this through right now, but I'm pretty sure that when the crank gear has its dot at 12 o'clock, the cam gear will either be at 6 o'clock OR 12 o'clock. Meaning for every full revolution of the cam gear, the crank gear has made 2 full revolutions. Does that make sense?

By lining up dot to dot first, I can be sure that the crank gear and cam gear are at their original orientation. However, I don't think it matters if your cam gear is originally at 12 o'clock, and when you reinstall it's at 6 o'clock.

Hopefully this makes sense.

ArcticZ28

iTrader: (14)

You can spin the cam once it's in anyways, so there is no need to line the dots up before taking it out. The cam at 6 and the cam at 12 doesn't really make a difference, dot to dot is dot to dot no matter where either of them started.

kpowr82

iTrader: (9)

Also, I really don't mean to hi-jack your thread, but while you're here ArcticZ, can you please tell me why you may need to advance or retard your cam if advance is already ground in?

I've got the torquer II on a 112+2, does that mean I should have retarded the cam 2 degrees?

kpowr82

iTrader: (9)

Oh, now I remember why I did it that way. I wanted to be absolutely positive that the crank dot was at 12 o'clock first since I wasn't using a degreeing wheel. When the cam gear and crank gear had dots lined up perfect, I knew that when I reinstalled the cam gear, I wouldn't have to mess with the crank gear much to get them lined up properly.

After actually doing the install, I realized that if you're not at exactly 12 and 6, you WILL know. You really have to be blind to not see that.

ArcticZ28

iTrader: (14)

To answer your question, most cam manufacturer's grind advance into the cam so that you don't have to advance it yourself. They create these cams with our car's useable power band in mind so they adjust the advance accordingly. Generally, people buy cams based on where these powerbands are and how high they want to rev the engine. However, a lot of times someone will like the duration, lift, valve events but won't like where the power band is (due to the fact that they want power to peak higher or lower in the rpm range). Therefore they buy the cam and can either advance the cam moving the powerband lower in the rpm range or retard the cam moving the powerband higher in the rpm range (which may net some additional peak hp). Again, this is a pretty general overview, but I hope it answers your question. Most people install an off the shelf cam straight up and it usually works pretty well. However, a lot of times there is additionaly gain from playing with the timing.

kpowr82

iTrader: (9)

Thanks for the help Arctic. Lithium, I'm pretty sure you'll be fine. A lot of people stress way too much about the dot to dot thing. Don't get me wrong, it's very important to do this step right, but if you're off, you'll know. You can't be off less than one full tooth.

Don't worry about. BTW, I'm glad you finally figured out what to go with. I'm gonna give the Torquer another go round with my new trans and see if I can't get my problems tuned out. Good luck, and if you need any help regarding the install, just PM me.

radkon

iTrader: (2)

The key to getting the timing "right" is to assure that cylinder 1 is at TDC and the crank dot is at 12 o'clock and the cam is at 6 o'clock. Once you think you have them lined up and the timing chain on turn the motor over a few times with a wrench on your crank bolt and verify that the dots are still lining up.

Lithium

iTrader: (47)

No the actually timimg sproket...(I guess that what its called atleast) I am installing the rollmaster double roller so I need to install that sproket that goes on the crank snout? Just want to know how tight that it needs to be. As in how far back it needs to be pushed...its all the way back but I just need to know how tight it needs to be.

Thanks for all the help guys

99blancoSS

iTrader: (115)

Your making it more difficult than it has to be. Unless he's running an adjustable setup he doesn't need that info. All he needs to do is line up the dots. It will be blazingly obvious if they are not lined up right. With advance ground in there will be an ever so slight difference when the dots are line up and thats it. Anything obvious is not line up correctly. As far as lining them up before the removal it just makes it so you dont have to rotate the crank so much to get lined up for the instal, its not a bad idea but certainly not needed.
As far as the timing sprocket I didnt change mine, maybe someone who has will speak up. But dont let arctic scare or cornfuse you with his advance and retarding 101. ask a simple question get a round about answer.. nice

ArcticZ28

iTrader: (14)

I know, right. How dare I give someone the information that they specifically asked for and could also be useful in the future. I mean, this site is obviously about keeping people uninformed about their mods. Sometimes I'm just so selfish trying to help people learn .

Lithium

iTrader: (47)

Artic.

Your info was very helpful to me. I appreciate it.