Where to get 30Lb injector for LS6 motor?
12-08-2005, 01:25 PM
#1
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Where to get 30Lb injector for LS6 motor? Guys:
I'm doing a heads/cam upgrade on my Z06 (LG's installing it) in ~Feb. Doing some reading that with ~460rwhp my stock 26lb injectors might not cut it....
I am being told that I need 30lb injectors for better reliability and function with my upgrade.
I'm hearing Bosch 30lb injectors will work well for me ? I hear the SVO's have issues because they are too long and hit the inner fuel rail when your driving the car hard and hot. I don't want to risk that.
Where do you think I can get what I will need ?
Prefered brands ?
Do you have any links ?
I tried Jegs and Summit but I just don't know exactly what I'm looking for.
Thanks guys !
Toque
I'm doing a heads/cam upgrade on my Z06 (LG's installing it) in ~Feb. Doing some reading that with ~460rwhp my stock 26lb injectors might not cut it....
I am being told that I need 30lb injectors for better reliability and function with my upgrade.
I'm hearing Bosch 30lb injectors will work well for me ? I hear the SVO's have issues because they are too long and hit the inner fuel rail when your driving the car hard and hot. I don't want to risk that.
Where do you think I can get what I will need ?
Prefered brands ?
Do you have any links ?
I tried Jegs and Summit but I just don't know exactly what I'm looking for.
Thanks guys !
Toque
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12-08-2005, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by The Juggernaut
I ran SVO 30#'s, had no issues.
12-08-2005, 02:17 PM
#4
Originally Posted by Toque
Guys:
I'm doing a heads/cam upgrade on my Z06 (LG's installing it) in ~Feb. Doing some reading that with ~460rwhp my stock 26lb injectors might not cut it....
I'm doing a heads/cam upgrade on my Z06 (LG's installing it) in ~Feb. Doing some reading that with ~460rwhp my stock 26lb injectors might not cut it....
It might be better to ask LGM what they would recommend as I assume they will also be doing the tuning after the h/c. Be very clear with them what your goals are for the car power-wise (and future mods).
At 460rwhp I would go with SVO 42s or Lucas / Delphi injectors 37#s or higher. SVO 30s will be very close to static.
12-08-2005, 08:26 PM
#7
Here are my thoughts on why SVO 30s may not be the ideal choice for >450rwhp:
GM used 28.8#/min injectors in an engine rated at 350 fwhp (vette ls1). If we assume a BSFC of .5 (which is all we can really do without test data from an engine dyno), then we see that the injectors should run at about 75%. If we use the standard 85% idc as our max, then that gives us a 10% cushion.
Using the 460rwhp target in the original post and 12% drivetrain loss, I get 515fwhp. SVO 30s at that power level should be pushed to 93% idc. This is above the recommended max of 85%. Will they work? Yes. The only problem is that the further above 85% you get, the less reliable the fuel mass is per pulse. It also means the injector is commanded open longer for each given pulse. The longer the pulse, the longer current is applied to the injector. This will cause the injector to wear faster. Also remember that this doesn’t just apply at WOT. At all rpms the smaller injectors will be commanded open longer. You also have to take into account that IDC (measured) is an average of all 8 injectors. Some will be lower and some will be higher. Also, take into account that the injectors are not flowed as a matched set before being sold. I remember reading somewhere (I’ll try to find the source) that a set could have a 5% spread between all injectors. That means any one injector could be +/- 5% of the 34.54 rated delivery rate.
This is where I look at what the GM chose and why. Given that the stock injectors should run at 75% max. This allows for a long injector life and steady, stable fuel flow for all cylinders even at WOT. This is why I would personally use an injector bigger than the SVO 30s. You spent all this $ on mods, why would you risk it by being less conservative on fuel delivery?
As for my own car, I run Lucas / Delphi 32s (36.5 @ 58psi). I have headers, ls6 intake, and am running a Maf-less SD tune. I was able to max (100% idc) my stock injectors at will by going WOT (or even close to it). With the 32s I now see 65-70% at max idc. I have further mods planned, so I have room to grow.
These are just my thoughts on how I would approach new injector requirements. Again, I would suggest talking to LGM and going by their recommendation.
GM used 28.8#/min injectors in an engine rated at 350 fwhp (vette ls1). If we assume a BSFC of .5 (which is all we can really do without test data from an engine dyno), then we see that the injectors should run at about 75%. If we use the standard 85% idc as our max, then that gives us a 10% cushion.
Using the 460rwhp target in the original post and 12% drivetrain loss, I get 515fwhp. SVO 30s at that power level should be pushed to 93% idc. This is above the recommended max of 85%. Will they work? Yes. The only problem is that the further above 85% you get, the less reliable the fuel mass is per pulse. It also means the injector is commanded open longer for each given pulse. The longer the pulse, the longer current is applied to the injector. This will cause the injector to wear faster. Also remember that this doesn’t just apply at WOT. At all rpms the smaller injectors will be commanded open longer. You also have to take into account that IDC (measured) is an average of all 8 injectors. Some will be lower and some will be higher. Also, take into account that the injectors are not flowed as a matched set before being sold. I remember reading somewhere (I’ll try to find the source) that a set could have a 5% spread between all injectors. That means any one injector could be +/- 5% of the 34.54 rated delivery rate.
This is where I look at what the GM chose and why. Given that the stock injectors should run at 75% max. This allows for a long injector life and steady, stable fuel flow for all cylinders even at WOT. This is why I would personally use an injector bigger than the SVO 30s. You spent all this $ on mods, why would you risk it by being less conservative on fuel delivery?
As for my own car, I run Lucas / Delphi 32s (36.5 @ 58psi). I have headers, ls6 intake, and am running a Maf-less SD tune. I was able to max (100% idc) my stock injectors at will by going WOT (or even close to it). With the 32s I now see 65-70% at max idc. I have further mods planned, so I have room to grow.
These are just my thoughts on how I would approach new injector requirements. Again, I would suggest talking to LGM and going by their recommendation.
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12-09-2005, 06:35 AM
#8
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Originally Posted by bshell
Here are my thoughts on why SVO 30s may not be the ideal choice for >450rwhp:
GM used 28.8#/min injectors in an engine rated at 350 fwhp (vette ls1). If we assume a BSFC of .5 (which is all we can really do without test data from an engine dyno), then we see that the injectors should run at about 75%. If we use the standard 85% idc as our max, then that gives us a 10% cushion.
Using the 460rwhp target in the original post and 12% drivetrain loss, I get 515fwhp. SVO 30s at that power level should be pushed to 93% idc. This is above the recommended max of 85%. Will they work? Yes. The only problem is that the further above 85% you get, the less reliable the fuel mass is per pulse. It also means the injector is commanded open longer for each given pulse. The longer the pulse, the longer current is applied to the injector. This will cause the injector to wear faster. Also remember that this doesn’t just apply at WOT. At all rpms the smaller injectors will be commanded open longer. You also have to take into account that IDC (measured) is an average of all 8 injectors. Some will be lower and some will be higher. Also, take into account that the injectors are not flowed as a matched set before being sold. I remember reading somewhere (I’ll try to find the source) that a set could have a 5% spread between all injectors. That means any one injector could be +/- 5% of the 34.54 rated delivery rate.
This is where I look at what the GM chose and why. Given that the stock injectors should run at 75% max. This allows for a long injector life and steady, stable fuel flow for all cylinders even at WOT. This is why I would personally use an injector bigger than the SVO 30s. You spent all this $ on mods, why would you risk it by being less conservative on fuel delivery?
As for my own car, I run Lucas / Delphi 32s (36.5 @ 58psi). I have headers, ls6 intake, and am running a Maf-less SD tune. I was able to max (100% idc) my stock injectors at will by going WOT (or even close to it). With the 32s I now see 65-70% at max idc. I have further mods planned, so I have room to grow.
These are just my thoughts on how I would approach new injector requirements. Again, I would suggest talking to LGM and going by their recommendation.
GM used 28.8#/min injectors in an engine rated at 350 fwhp (vette ls1). If we assume a BSFC of .5 (which is all we can really do without test data from an engine dyno), then we see that the injectors should run at about 75%. If we use the standard 85% idc as our max, then that gives us a 10% cushion.
Using the 460rwhp target in the original post and 12% drivetrain loss, I get 515fwhp. SVO 30s at that power level should be pushed to 93% idc. This is above the recommended max of 85%. Will they work? Yes. The only problem is that the further above 85% you get, the less reliable the fuel mass is per pulse. It also means the injector is commanded open longer for each given pulse. The longer the pulse, the longer current is applied to the injector. This will cause the injector to wear faster. Also remember that this doesn’t just apply at WOT. At all rpms the smaller injectors will be commanded open longer. You also have to take into account that IDC (measured) is an average of all 8 injectors. Some will be lower and some will be higher. Also, take into account that the injectors are not flowed as a matched set before being sold. I remember reading somewhere (I’ll try to find the source) that a set could have a 5% spread between all injectors. That means any one injector could be +/- 5% of the 34.54 rated delivery rate.
This is where I look at what the GM chose and why. Given that the stock injectors should run at 75% max. This allows for a long injector life and steady, stable fuel flow for all cylinders even at WOT. This is why I would personally use an injector bigger than the SVO 30s. You spent all this $ on mods, why would you risk it by being less conservative on fuel delivery?
As for my own car, I run Lucas / Delphi 32s (36.5 @ 58psi). I have headers, ls6 intake, and am running a Maf-less SD tune. I was able to max (100% idc) my stock injectors at will by going WOT (or even close to it). With the 32s I now see 65-70% at max idc. I have further mods planned, so I have room to grow.
These are just my thoughts on how I would approach new injector requirements. Again, I would suggest talking to LGM and going by their recommendation.
One thing a lot of poeple miss is that our pressure regulator is not at the rail and not adjustable.
Put a Racetronix PnP pump + harness + FPR (at rail) and tell me again how much can the stock 28.8 (01-02) can handle.
I have 429 rwhp + i shoot up to 200 dry (~160 wet), so that is a total (aproximate) 580+ rwhp and the SVO 30's are at 98%.
So that is maxed. (for 10.x seconds)
500 rwhp is well within the 80/85% SVO cycle capability.
So the moral of this is bigger injectors are not always the solution, but a well balanced fuel system is. Combo (I love this word)
12-09-2005, 08:52 AM
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Originally Posted by bshell
Here are my thoughts on why SVO 30s may not be the ideal choice for >450rwhp:
GM used 28.8#/min injectors in an engine rated at 350 fwhp (vette ls1). If we assume a BSFC of .5 (which is all we can really do without test data from an engine dyno), then we see that the injectors should run at about 75%. If we use the standard 85% idc as our max, then that gives us a 10% cushion.
Using the 460rwhp target in the original post and 12% drivetrain loss, I get 515fwhp. SVO 30s at that power level should be pushed to 93% idc. This is above the recommended max of 85%. Will they work? Yes. The only problem is that the further above 85% you get, the less reliable the fuel mass is per pulse. It also means the injector is commanded open longer for each given pulse. The longer the pulse, the longer current is applied to the injector. This will cause the injector to wear faster. Also remember that this doesn’t just apply at WOT. At all rpms the smaller injectors will be commanded open longer. You also have to take into account that IDC (measured) is an average of all 8 injectors. Some will be lower and some will be higher. Also, take into account that the injectors are not flowed as a matched set before being sold. I remember reading somewhere (I’ll try to find the source) that a set could have a 5% spread between all injectors. That means any one injector could be +/- 5% of the 34.54 rated delivery rate.
This is where I look at what the GM chose and why. Given that the stock injectors should run at 75% max. This allows for a long injector life and steady, stable fuel flow for all cylinders even at WOT. This is why I would personally use an injector bigger than the SVO 30s. You spent all this $ on mods, why would you risk it by being less conservative on fuel delivery?
As for my own car, I run Lucas / Delphi 32s (36.5 @ 58psi). I have headers, ls6 intake, and am running a Maf-less SD tune. I was able to max (100% idc) my stock injectors at will by going WOT (or even close to it). With the 32s I now see 65-70% at max idc. I have further mods planned, so I have room to grow.
These are just my thoughts on how I would approach new injector requirements. Again, I would suggest talking to LGM and going by their recommendation.
GM used 28.8#/min injectors in an engine rated at 350 fwhp (vette ls1). If we assume a BSFC of .5 (which is all we can really do without test data from an engine dyno), then we see that the injectors should run at about 75%. If we use the standard 85% idc as our max, then that gives us a 10% cushion.
Using the 460rwhp target in the original post and 12% drivetrain loss, I get 515fwhp. SVO 30s at that power level should be pushed to 93% idc. This is above the recommended max of 85%. Will they work? Yes. The only problem is that the further above 85% you get, the less reliable the fuel mass is per pulse. It also means the injector is commanded open longer for each given pulse. The longer the pulse, the longer current is applied to the injector. This will cause the injector to wear faster. Also remember that this doesn’t just apply at WOT. At all rpms the smaller injectors will be commanded open longer. You also have to take into account that IDC (measured) is an average of all 8 injectors. Some will be lower and some will be higher. Also, take into account that the injectors are not flowed as a matched set before being sold. I remember reading somewhere (I’ll try to find the source) that a set could have a 5% spread between all injectors. That means any one injector could be +/- 5% of the 34.54 rated delivery rate.
This is where I look at what the GM chose and why. Given that the stock injectors should run at 75% max. This allows for a long injector life and steady, stable fuel flow for all cylinders even at WOT. This is why I would personally use an injector bigger than the SVO 30s. You spent all this $ on mods, why would you risk it by being less conservative on fuel delivery?
As for my own car, I run Lucas / Delphi 32s (36.5 @ 58psi). I have headers, ls6 intake, and am running a Maf-less SD tune. I was able to max (100% idc) my stock injectors at will by going WOT (or even close to it). With the 32s I now see 65-70% at max idc. I have further mods planned, so I have room to grow.
These are just my thoughts on how I would approach new injector requirements. Again, I would suggest talking to LGM and going by their recommendation.
12-09-2005, 12:09 PM
#12
Originally Posted by PREDATOR-Z
One thing a lot of poeple miss is that our pressure regulator is not at the rail and not adjustable.
Put a Racetronix PnP pump + harness + FPR (at rail) and tell me again how much can the stock 28.8 (01-02) can handle.
I have 429 rwhp + i shoot up to 200 dry (~160 wet), so that is a total (aproximate) 580+ rwhp and the SVO 30's are at 98%.
So that is maxed. (for 10.x seconds)
500 rwhp is well within the 80/85% SVO cycle capability.
So the moral of this is bigger injectors are not always the solution, but a well balanced fuel system is. Combo (I love this word)
Put a Racetronix PnP pump + harness + FPR (at rail) and tell me again how much can the stock 28.8 (01-02) can handle.
I have 429 rwhp + i shoot up to 200 dry (~160 wet), so that is a total (aproximate) 580+ rwhp and the SVO 30's are at 98%.
So that is maxed. (for 10.x seconds)
500 rwhp is well within the 80/85% SVO cycle capability.
So the moral of this is bigger injectors are not always the solution, but a well balanced fuel system is. Combo (I love this word)
I do agree, that a well balanced fuel system is the best way to go.
