DART vs ETP vs AFR
01-14-2006, 02:39 PM
#21
Side note:
Racing expensive...travel...tires...fees...etc...
Changing heads takes a while and costs a couple of hundred in fluids and gaskets, etc.
The difference between the CNC and non-CNC heads maybe $1200.
To me, the extra costs for a CNC head is small if the rules allow it.
Racing expensive...travel...tires...fees...etc...
Changing heads takes a while and costs a couple of hundred in fluids and gaskets, etc.
The difference between the CNC and non-CNC heads maybe $1200.
To me, the extra costs for a CNC head is small if the rules allow it.
01-14-2006, 05:48 PM
#22
10 Second Club
iTrader: (15)
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: St. Michael, MN.
Posts: 4,519
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Beast96Z
If your going for a cost effective build, get the AFR 225's.
01-14-2006, 07:37 PM
#24
TECH Apprentice
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 339
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I would stick with what is known, that AFR and ETP heads will make a nice power gain, well over budget heads. In fact all the setups I see with budget heads produce poor numbers and you will never see a before and after comparison on a budget head. I think this is because people are embarassed with the results compared to AFR and ETP's.
01-14-2006, 08:37 PM
#25
Or TEA, Cartek, or a handful of other porters who have gotten good results. Cartek sends out lots of cars in the 10 and 11s.
However their heads cost the same as an AFR, ET, or CNC Dart or CNC World.
However their heads cost the same as an AFR, ET, or CNC Dart or CNC World.
01-15-2006, 03:08 AM
#26
Collections Hold
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: howell mi
Posts: 476
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
ls7 small bore
Originally Posted by JZ'sTA
3000 for the LS7 heads not for the LSx casting heads.
ETP is right in line with AFR on this 215 and 225 heads. The 245's are a bit more but they compete with themselves so the can be a bit more. And its not much like 100 bucks.
BTW the LS7's are out of the question here as they wont work with the 408 bore.
ETP is right in line with AFR on this 215 and 225 heads. The 245's are a bit more but they compete with themselves so the can be a bit more. And its not much like 100 bucks.
BTW the LS7's are out of the question here as they wont work with the 408 bore.
jeremy,
check out what I just posted over in ls7 -ls2 engine tech about our 4"bore ls7 head, flow numbers are there too
01-15-2006, 04:30 AM
#28
Originally Posted by chrismcdaniel
but i would really like to see someone give actually hp/flow/price DATA. id like to hear facts not opinions.
Here are some results on the new Darts :http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...14&forum_id=53
01-16-2006, 09:48 AM
#32
Staging Lane
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 51
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by SStrokerAce
Ain't much of a cam in that thing.....
Just got the test car back together for the Dart 225's and a bigger cam here. Gotta work out some bugs and then get ti tuned.
Bret
Just got the test car back together for the Dart 225's and a bigger cam here. Gotta work out some bugs and then get ti tuned.
Bret
I have attached the flow sheets and the dyno
01-16-2006, 10:40 AM
#33
Originally Posted by stevieturbo
Where do the Edelbrock heads come into things ??
Or are they below par compared to AFR's and ET's etc ? for comparable port sizes
Or are they below par compared to AFR's and ET's etc ? for comparable port sizes
01-16-2006, 11:54 AM
#34
On The Tree
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Suburbs of Detroit
Posts: 102
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Flow numbers 
What is with you guys and flow numbers??? And why do people think sheit needs to be ported to work?? A quality head that is a ported design to begin with if built by an excellent pattern shop and poured by a good foundry and machined using excellent equipment then why cant the as cast head be any good??? Just because someone on here uses brand Z and they worked doesnt make him an expert it means they worked thats it!! Could have worked with 10 other heads as well! Engine building is about combinations and making them work together, like a heart transplant patient, his body may reject the heart even though it is a perfectly good heart. Motors are like that things need to match or the sheit dont run... But because someone used this brand or that brand dont make them an expert, heck blind squirrels find nuts!! And people that sell this and that brand dont make them experts!! Do you guys even know what to look for in a cnc ported head to tell if it good or bad??? No probably not it just looks cool... We do and to be honest many of the ones you guys brag up have the most horrid chamber work done , their old Sunnen they use to valve job the heads leaves nasty marks above the seats, like thats good, chambers dont even match most of the time, they dont blend the chamber work where the cnc hits the valve job...i can keep going on, but my goal isnt to bash another company thats why i wont tell you whom i speak of, but rather to say are you qualified or know enough to say that the machining is good??? Its like when people on here say they are going to have somebody change the parts Dart puts in the heads because Dart doesnt advertise the brand names. Geez come one guys, get real do you think all these companys really make everything they sell, Comp Springs 921's they are made by PSI and the same springs Dart includes, yes Dart can get them from COMP but now they pay more so the price goes up! Ferrea valves, they come from Eaton same as Manleys, REV's, and Darts, there are only two companies who make stainless steel valves for the aftermarket one is Eaton and one is Basso, everybody gets there vavles from them. Valve locks come from Comp Cams (who get them from Pioneer), seals come from US Seal, which supplies a ton of people including the big 3, as for the titanium retainers they are made by Trick who makes them for Comp and several others, Dart is right down the road so they get them from them. PSI is in Ann Arbor, Trick in Royal Oak, Eaton in Ann Arbor, US Seal in Port Huron, all local companies who supply just about everybody!!!Dart has a forum and for those who want real answers about their parts feel free to use it. www.dartheads.com is their site.
01-16-2006, 12:06 PM
#35
9 Second Club
Originally Posted by Nemesis9
I'm also curious about the Edelbrock heads, has anyone used them?
Its for my new 382 S/C motor I'm putting together
A&A got them ported, and this is the flow info from the porters website.
WCCH/Edelbrock 215 LS1 Flow Data @ 28" Water:
Valve Lift Intake Exhaust
.100"...... 67.6 ...55.8
.200" ......138.0 ..121.3
.300" ......207.2 ..170.8
.400" ......256.6 ..207.2
.500" ......291.1 ..226.9
.550" ......302.3 ..230.0
.575" ......305.1.. 231.1
.600" ......307.5 ..232.5
.625" ......310.7 ..233.7
.650" ......310.7 ..236.0
Intake runner volume = 212cc
Exhaust runner volume = 82cc
Combustion chamber volume = 66cc
Test bore = 4.030"
Intake port tested with radius flow plate
Exhaust tested with stub pipe
I think that reads pretty good. ??
01-16-2006, 03:27 PM
#37
9 Second Club
Possible, but as its about the only way to make a choice considering nobody has built an engine to the exact same spec of mine, flow info will just have to do.
If flow numbers really meant nothing, then there would be no such thing as flow benches in order to test them.
I know I'd rather own a head that flows say 300cfm, than one that flows 100cfm.
If flow numbers really meant nothing, then there would be no such thing as flow benches in order to test them.
I know I'd rather own a head that flows say 300cfm, than one that flows 100cfm.
01-16-2006, 03:31 PM
#38
Restricted User
iTrader: (9)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Sierra Vista, AZ
Posts: 7,603
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Dart331Stroker
What is with you guys and flow numbers??? And why do people think sheit needs to be ported to work?? A quality head that is a ported design to begin with if built by an excellent pattern shop and poured by a good foundry and machined using excellent equipment then why cant the as cast head be any good??? Just because someone on here uses brand Z and they worked doesnt make him an expert it means they worked thats it!! Could have worked with 10 other heads as well! Engine building is about combinations and making them work together, like a heart transplant patient, his body may reject the heart even though it is a perfectly good heart. Motors are like that things need to match or the sheit dont run... But because someone used this brand or that brand dont make them an expert, heck blind squirrels find nuts!! And people that sell this and that brand dont make them experts!! Do you guys even know what to look for in a cnc ported head to tell if it good or bad??? No probably not it just looks cool... We do and to be honest many of the ones you guys brag up have the most horrid chamber work done , their old Sunnen they use to valve job the heads leaves nasty marks above the seats, like thats good, chambers dont even match most of the time, they dont blend the chamber work where the cnc hits the valve job...i can keep going on, but my goal isnt to bash another company thats why i wont tell you whom i speak of, but rather to say are you qualified or know enough to say that the machining is good??? Its like when people on here say they are going to have somebody change the parts Dart puts in the heads because Dart doesnt advertise the brand names. Geez come one guys, get real do you think all these companys really make everything they sell, Comp Springs 921's they are made by PSI and the same springs Dart includes, yes Dart can get them from COMP but now they pay more so the price goes up! Ferrea valves, they come from Eaton same as Manleys, REV's, and Darts, there are only two companies who make stainless steel valves for the aftermarket one is Eaton and one is Basso, everybody gets there vavles from them. Valve locks come from Comp Cams (who get them from Pioneer), seals come from US Seal, which supplies a ton of people including the big 3, as for the titanium retainers they are made by Trick who makes them for Comp and several others, Dart is right down the road so they get them from them. PSI is in Ann Arbor, Trick in Royal Oak, Eaton in Ann Arbor, US Seal in Port Huron, all local companies who supply just about everybody!!!Dart has a forum and for those who want real answers about their parts feel free to use it. www.dartheads.com is their site.
331...I have to comment on your thorough explaination of things and doing so in a professional manner, very polite. I wonder who makes what and where this Co. get that, now I know a little more. I am sure there are much more to a set of heads than I know, but I also believe there are some of those aspects that one Co. focuses on more than others and vice versa, each one going with what they know works, and is proven for their particular design. I could be wrong as hell too.
Charlie
01-16-2006, 03:35 PM
#39
11 Second Club
Thread Starter
iTrader: (14)
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 930
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by CAT3
331...I have to comment on your thorough explaination of things and doing so in a professional manner, very polite. I wonder who makes what and where this Co. get that, now I know a little more. I am sure there are much more to a set of heads than I know, but I also believe there are some of those aspects that one Co. focuses on more than others and vice versa, each one going with what they know works, and is proven for their particular design. I could be wrong as hell too.
Charlie
Charlie
