ssheets

iTrader: (1)

Other than a few immature reactions this has been one of the best posts to read in here in a long time.
Thanks to all of those that contributied and While I disagree with the original authors premise, I give him credit for sticking to his guns. Right, wrong or indifferent he is going to learn. That is the mindset that oftens leads to success.

Way cool stuff from Dart heads and I sure hope you can send one head back to Patriot for a re-flow...that would be awesome.

Thanks to all, I enjoyed every word of this and since I'm in the middle of a H/C swap I often read each post twice.

Malihoochie

Seems to me that Xtnct00WS6 asked for others input and didn't like what he heard. BTW, If not for Dart331Stroker you wouldn't have a Dart LS1 head at all. Yea, a clipboard - . Ask Tony M. from AFR or Craig & the guys at ET if thats what goes on here.

Ted J

iTrader: (4)

Sorry man, my thanks was towards Dart331Stroker for posting up info about the differences of wet flow vs. that of dry flow. While he didn't post data up he still brought up some valid points that I've wondered about but never really knew if it made a big difference or not.

Xtnct00WS6

iTrader: (8)

I appreciate the offer but Detriot is pretty far from VA. I'd actually love to work with you guys. It's a cool industry. There's no need to quit the site though! Gimme a break! A heated discussion where good information is being found out is no reason to quit the site.

Again, we're not talking about Darts casting and cnc process. We're talking about a GM casting with an aftermarket CNC port.

Gunnar, if you're reading this I'm not trying to imply anything negative. I'm just saying it's not a top of the line casting or head in general. It's a great product you guys ship out and I'm proud to say I have a Patriot Performance Head. I'm sure the new Predetor head will be right up there with the very best. Thanks so much for the offer though, I dropped off a head this morning to a local person and should have results in a few days. That's customer support right there. Maybe I could send the same one out after he's done? I do kinda want to just strap those things on and get it running though. I'm sure the new numbers will be questioned anyways.

Very well put. I can admit I was wrong to port the entire Intake port, but I'm pretty sure there were portions where more flow can he had. After all, Joe Mondello said so and who are we to try and contradict what he says

You wouldn't have read his comments in the first place if not for this thread that I created. That's all I was saying.

I'm just asking and not trying to be sarcastic here, but what did he do to create/be involved with the Dart LS1 creation?

I'm not contradicting anything a professional has ever said. If someone wants to correct anything I've said, I welcome it. I want to know and I'm sure the people reading this want to know. I asked for imput yes, but if that imput doesn't have any data behind it, come from an absolute professional, or have obvious reasoning, I'm going to question it.

Dart331Stroker, I don't keep talking about dry flow. I haven't once mentioned it specifically or anything in reference to a comparison between the two. My final point which I'm going to stick to is that atomization is taken care of by the injector. The point at which it's been atomized (turned into a mist), it no longer needs to be atomized further. Once the fuel hit's the port wall, it then becomes an issue of flow. To get the best performing head possible, you need a rough surface on the intake runner and that's mostly because air and fuel flow. The optimal degree in roughness depends many things. What is optimal for my application, I don't know. If there any other professionals out there, feel free to chime in.

Gunnar@Patriot

iTrader: (20)

[QUOTE=Xtnct00WS6]

Gunnar, if you're reading this I'm not trying to imply anything negative. I'm just saying it's not a top of the line casting or head in general. It's a great product you guys ship out and I'm proud to say I have a Patriot Performance Head. I'm sure the new Predetor head will be right up there with the very best. Thanks so much for the offer though, I dropped off a head this morning to a local person and should have results in a few days. That's customer support right there. Maybe I could send the same one out after he's done? I do kinda want to just strap those things on and get it running though. I'm sure the new numbers will be questioned anyways.
QUOTE]


No problems at all here. Let us know your local results and if you want, we will be glad to flow it here again.

Malihoochie

I'm just asking and not trying to be sarcastic here, but what did he do to create/be involved with the Dart LS1 creation? -

He and I pushed hard for these heads to hit the market sooner than they were slated to for one. He made the call to change from 11/32" to 8mm valve stem size, (much of that was in conjunction with posts on this site). He worked with the pattern shop and our main head designer on approving the initial and final castings of that head. He had the final say on who samples were sent to for review. He made up the tech sheets for our heads. He along with the main head designer, after countless hrs of testing, chose the springs, seals, and custom titanium retainers on assembled heads. He even created the part #'s for the heads!! The same will come to pass if/WHEN a Dart LSx block is produced.
Often his passion for the parts produced here may come off as cocky at first - but if you back your own ego down - you'd realize there just may be something to be learned.

Xtnct00WS6

iTrader: (8)

He helped pick out the parts...that's cool. I don't think my ego is the one that needs to be checked. I'm not contradicting something that
Joe Mondello said.

You guys don't have any engineers working at dart? That strikes me as weird. Well, I hear u all have a good product regardless.

cantdrv65

iTrader: (3)

Xtnct00WS6

iTrader: (8)

Very intelligent and thoughtful response. I wish we had more posts like yours. I love how people like you add so much to a discussion. Are you just trying to get your post count up?

Lasershop

iTrader: (2)

You've seen my heads Gunnar. No ones are as smooth and polished as mine. Ill take you up on that.

Xtnct00WS6

iTrader: (8)

Good lord they're shiny. Ya need sunglasses to look at those.

Ya might wanna skuff those up a bit though. Good job though. What kinda setup are they going on?

MrDude_1

iTrader: (4)

how did you polish so close to the valve seats without hitting the valve seats?

Xtnct00WS6

iTrader: (8)

He must have taped it off really really well. Now I wanna polish some more...haha

Lasershop

iTrader: (2)

Been doing this stuff for 30 years. Spent almost 3 months on these.. nearly everyday. Had the valves redone and the heads set up after the handwork anyway. Be interesting to see the difference in flow. Whatever the result. I love em'.

Lasershop

iTrader: (2)

Thats what the machine shop said when I took them in to get set up. I nearly cried. Didnt have the heart to do it. FI application. Not a race car.

ssheets

iTrader: (1)

Those are too pretty to put on a car!!!!

That's fricken art.

MrDude_1

iTrader: (4)

that explains it.

Malihoochie

Xtnct00WS6 - FWIW : Joe Mondello called today to ask Dart331stroker to send him a head.

Xtnct00WS6

iTrader: (8)

I think everyone's said their peace man. But if you want to keep it going, that's fine. I have much more I want to learn anyways...

That's pretty cool though. I wish I was in a position to be able to talk to someone like Joe Mondello. Since you all are in a really good position in being able to talk with him, I'd be interested in his reaction to Dart331stroker's comments about how Joe Mondello is wrong about this: "There are a lot of CNC profiles being sold today, but I think most have some room for improvement. Additional hand grinding can usually pick up another 10 to 12 or more cfm." Maybe he (Joe Mondello) made that comment a long time ago?

Malihoochie

It was a comment made long ago. Many people don't realize that CNC machines have been around since the '70's. Technology marches along at a rapid clip. Many head gurus say the grooves left by the CNC causes a vortice, where the air getts trapped and in turn acts like a roller for the incoming air. And, to add to the mix, our top porter feels that a roughened surface (very rough) is probably better yet. Lasershops heads do look sweet tho'. Like they should be on a display for a brand of metal polish.