black_knight

iTrader: (1)

Dude, you forgot lifters. Stock lifters aren't up to the job of holding down the increased spring pressure from your new valvetrain. And those plastic stock lifter holders should be replaced, too.

I'm not even kidding.

ULTIMATEORANGESS

iTrader: (4)

arent big cams fun?

black_knight

iTrader: (1)

Once you do the research, the whole "cam only" thing makes little sense.

nokeman

iTrader: (30)

So if i was doing a cam swap and installing myself, would 1000 dollars be sufficient. Im plan on getting pushrods, springs, retainers, seat, etc, and a timming chain. Am I going to need to up the budget?

PREDATOR-Z

I wouldn't go that far, I'm starting to see more 05+ Mustangs with 8 psi SC's making 550 rwhp +
The advantage we have at the track is that they can't hook for sh*t.

kenp

iTrader: (9)

QUOTE=Ferocity02]Sorry, but $2600 is CHEAP for a cam, lifters, oil pump, timing chain, head, valve springs, pushrods, and rocker swap... You didn't do JUST a cam swap buddy [/QUOTE]

I have $2600 in parts. I've been accumulating the parts for over 9 months now, buying new parts from people who decided for whatever reason not to use them and watching for sale prices from vendors. The prices I posted are in fact the prices I paid for the parts. I have not begun the install yet because the weather just isn't nice enough here and I don't have a heated garage. I expect my install will go relatively smoothly. It isn't a big deal for me if it doesn't because I don't need the car. It isn't my daily driver unless I want it to be my daily driver.

Certainly, this was intended to inject a bit of humor into the cam swap advice so frequently given here at LS1 tech, and to provide a caveat to those who think it'll be cheap, or believe the advice that it can be cheap. Once you begin accumulating parts for mods, you have stepped onto a slippery slope and costs can accumulate rapidly.

orangeapeel

iTrader: (18)

My cam went in for 400 for all valvetrain and my labor.

ls1z01

iTrader: (2)

HAHAHAHAH

blkZ28spt

My complete cam swap with:

Camshaft
Dual springs
Ti retainers
hardened pushrods
hardened spring seats with new seals
Rollmaster double roller timing chain
Ported LS6 oil pump
Dyno tune
Very nice LS1 valve spring tool

Cost me about $1,500.


Really? What makes you say that? What alternative would you choose?

UltraZLS1

iTrader: (13)

05's at 8 psi with 550 rwhp?

I didnt think it was that high. One of latest issues of MM&FF were testing out the whipple charger versus the kenne bell and they were in the 47x to 48x rwhp range. This was all with top of the line parts and expert tuning. I think they were even using 100+ octane as well.

Im not that worried...if I start having too much trouble ill just throw on a 100 shot.

black_knight

iTrader: (1)

Cam - $350 - 450
Dual spring set - $150
Retainers - $100
Hardened pushrods - $136
Seats, seals, shims - $100
Timing Chain - $150
Replace oil pump - $125
Tuning - $500

$1611

Lifters - $136 ('course you can't get to these unless you pull the heads...)
Rockers - $150

Yeah, yeah, you can skip these if you’re cheap, but then it breaks and you’re out how much money for a broken motor?

$1897

Then you need the “misc”: Cam degree kit that actually works on an LS1 (aluminum block means magnets no worky), valvespring tool (a good one, because the one from autozone won’t work!), loctite, an oil change and new oil filter, a bunch of pen-magnets so you don’t drop the lifters, a baseline dyno so you know if you’re not down on power, 3 arm pully puller, a rubber sledge to get it back on, a torque wrench with lb/ft measurements, a pulley bolt, water pump gaskets, front engine seal, valve cover gaskets, jug of dex-cool, gasket silicone…

Price: ????? $2000?

Yikes! That adds up. When you get done pricing all of that, you might as well get a set of heads. They come assembled with a valvetrain already set up, and you will save yourself a MAJOR headache of trying to work on the valvetrain with the heads still in the car. (can you say cowl = razor blade w/pointy screws?)

Just my opinion. Been there done that, would rather have done it differently.

ArcticZ28

iTrader: (14)

$2600? That's cheap. My first cam install cost me $3600 for a new motor which took a crap on the dyno b/c a broken valve from the first engine somehow made its way into the new one. This led to $3800 more during the "f*ck it" phase for a new 408 from HPE. I'd say you made out like a bandit But that's just my experience.

black_knight

iTrader: (1)

Oh, did I mention that I mis-shifted it and toasted my motor? Yeah... it got more expensive than that...

blkZ28spt

Don't need lifters and rockers. Majority of tech members who do cam swaps do not and have no problems

Do not use pen magnets. Spend $2 on wooden dowel rods to hold the lifters up.

Are you counting the price of a bolt and gaskets kit for the heads?

A cam can give more power than heads.

You count $500 for tuning in the cam swap price and not in the heads price.

After you spend the money for a good valvespring tool the springs are a breeze to change. I had absolutely no problems doing each cylinder in 20 minutes, even the very back ones. No problems AT ALL. Easier than a plug swap with stock manifolds for me.

You need a baseline dyno before the cam but not before doing heads?

You need all the misc things that a cam swap requires and more to swap heads.

Why replace the oil pump during the cam swap but not with the head swap? If you don't feel the money for the oil pump is well spent then don't buy a new oil pump.

black_knight

iTrader: (1)

You misunderstand me; I didn't give a heads price. I wasn't suggesting to do heads only. I was suggesting that if you're in for >$2500, then you may as well do heads also. If I knew that a cam swap would cost that much when I started, I would have saved my money up for heads/cam.

Again, that's me. Maybe for some it's worth it to spend > $2500 and just get a cam. Or, like you, they get a screaming deal. But most people will NOT get off as easy as you did. I did the cam swap because ppl like you said "oh, I only paid $1500." Well, I've heard of "your mileage may vary" but damn.

blkZ28spt

Most people dont' spend $2,500 for a cam swap.

I spent $1,500. That's not a screaming deal, if you do your own work it is quite affordable. Again, most people do not do lifters and rockers. I can understand lifters if you are using dual springs, but rockers really are not necessary.

I don't see any reason to spend $5,000 because I am already spending $1,500.....or even $2k.

I do agree that if you are willing and able to spend the money up front a matched heads/cam setup done at the same time is better than doing first one and then the other.


However many people simply cannot afford it. I've had my cam in for 1.5 years and it'll be at least two more before I can afford heads, but I am already running 11's in my DD. That's the beauty of cam only.

black_knight

iTrader: (1)

Don't know how you managed that. Even without the rockers or lifters and doing all the labor yourself, it's still over $2000. I know because I did it. If you spent less than that, you must have gotten a free tune and already have all the tools and a bunch of other stuff. That's cool for you. But most people doing this will not... repeat not get away from it for $1500.

That's just my opinion. A cam swap was not something I was willing to do for $2k. I was willing to do it for $1200, which was the number people said it could be done for. With hindsight, I would rather have saved my money up and done the full-blown heads and cam.

Again, that's me. But people should know that $1500 is not typical.

You've got an auto. I've got an M6. No way would I see 11's cam only without gutting the car and putting slicks on the back. Can't DD with it that way. At least I don't want to, LOL. Ah, but that's off topic.

blkZ28spt

No free tune. The dyno tune was cheaper than average, $350 vs $500 that was their typical charge. I had already spent $150 on a "basic tune" at LS1 speed and they treated the full dyno tune as a upgrade to the basic. I had forgot about that, which accounts for a $150 difference. You are right on that point.

I ordered all the parts from TSP for almost exactly $1k delivered. The other $150 was fluids and a valve spring tool. I could have saved $80 by not changing the oil pump if I had a newer car, or saved money by getting an LS2 timing chain instead of the Rollmaster double roller, which is overkill.


Question: Have you swapped heads? How much do you figure it would cost to do a head swap the right way on top of a cam swap?

At the very least you are looking at $1,000 for the cheapest new heads you can buy, extra bolts/gaskets and extra labour.

If not for having the basic tune already it would have cost $1,650.



I now have 5,000 posts, woot!

black_knight

iTrader: (1)

Yes, but that's a looooong story. Had the motor break and had to do it. I couldn't afford better so had to do stock LS6 heads. ($650 shipped)

If I could do it all again, I never would have done the cam... would have saved my money and done the Mamo Combo, or something similar. Yes, it's a different ballpark in terms of price. But I spent over $2000 and still ran mid-high 12's. (again, an M6 thing... the car ran low 13's before swap so that's a normal result)

I'm surprised you didn't have to pay for

a Cam degree kit that actually works on an LS1 (aluminum block means magnets no worky), loctite, an oil change and new oil filter
3 arm pully puller, a rubber sledge to get it back on, a torque wrench with lb/ft measurements, a pulley bolt, water pump gaskets, front engine seal, valve cover gaskets, jug of dex-cool, gasket silicone…

oh, plus tax.

but hey maybe you knew a guy who owned all that stuff and let you borrow.

I'm not saying it can't be done for $1500, but just that Joe newbie out there shouldn't assume that he can do it for that. I did and I was way wrong.

Also not saying that it's not worth it for everyone. For some, that $2k cam swap will put them just where they want to be. For me, I would have been happy paying $1200 for a cam swap and mid 12's. But that didn't happen.

DWillTA

iTrader: (3)

I have a M6 car and I spent with EFILive scan and tune around $1700.

Comp Cam - 350
Comp Pushrods - 120
Comp 918's - 175
New GM Oil Pump - 75.82
New LS2 Timing Chain - 30.16
Crane Spring Tool - 110
Timing Cover gasket - 14.55
Crank Seal - 14.18
Crank Bolt - 2.86
5/pk Oil Oring - 2.68
Water Pump Gasket - 2.63 x2
10 Valve Locks (not needed never lost any of the originals) - .57 x10
EFILive Scan & Tune - 700
Crank Puller - 00 (Autozone Loan a Tool)

Total - 1606.66
I may have forgot something small. I have had no issues in 5,000 miles. I did all the work myself and since I purchased the tuning software I am at nobody's mercy if I get heads or any other power upgrade.

Just wanted to chime in and say you can do a cam swap for around 1500 bucks. Is it a budget swap? No! But the power gained outweighs the money spent. Thanks

Dave