LS1 Dart head Issues All read
03-20-2006, 09:19 AM
#41
If the entire row of rockers moved up and that was the problem; it seems to me that ALL of the rockers would impact ALL of the retainers. Since only one retainer has the scratch marks, I bet you have a rocker on the way out. Or, less likely, one spring that was not installed at the correct height/pre-load.
03-20-2006, 02:55 PM
#42
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Originally Posted by 1CAMWNDR
If the entire row of rockers moved up and that was the problem; it seems to me that ALL of the rockers would impact ALL of the retainers. Since only one retainer has the scratch marks, I bet you have a rocker on the way out. Or, less likely, one spring that was not installed at the correct height/pre-load.
We disassembled and reinstalled with the correct procedure and torque specs and we will see what happens.
03-20-2006, 03:01 PM
#43
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Originally Posted by Viper
"Several Ls1tech forum vendors are involved here this was not a backyard install."
I believe we are trying to help you, not knock you down.
I believe we are trying to help you, not knock you down.
Someone made a reference "you need to talk to your pro".
I racked my brain trying to think of cause and needed some assistance.
We checked the wipe and all rocker tolerances and everything is fine.
Rockers are not worn out.
Thank you to all who replied
Regards
B
03-20-2006, 03:47 PM
#44
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Originally Posted by NOT-MEE
That is why i posted.
Someone made a reference "you need to talk to your pro".
I racked my brain trying to think of cause and needed some assistance.
We checked the wipe and all rocker tolerances and everything is fine.
Rockers are not worn out.
Thank you to all who replied
Regards
B
Someone made a reference "you need to talk to your pro".
I racked my brain trying to think of cause and needed some assistance.
We checked the wipe and all rocker tolerances and everything is fine.
Rockers are not worn out.
Thank you to all who replied
Regards
B
Maybe I misunderstood your thread. It seemed to me you were quick to throw down at Dart but unwilling to look else where.
BTW even "pros" make mistakes. Don't be so quick to get offended unless your the pro.
03-20-2006, 06:10 PM
#45
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Originally Posted by Wire Dog
Maybe I misunderstood your thread. It seemed to me you were quick to throw down at Dart but unwilling to look else where.
BTW even "pros" make mistakes. Don't be so quick to get offended unless your the pro.
BTW even "pros" make mistakes. Don't be so quick to get offended unless your the pro.
It could be install or set up related who knows. I tried to get assistance from Dart they never called to date. Talked to the head porter and he was at a loss on how something like this happened. We re installed the rocker inspecting the valve train no issues were found. We were even able to understand the movement.
But without hard evidence you cannot point you finger at any given part.
So we did the best thing, set up everything again with the correct procedure and we will see if it happens again.
I drive my car daily so it will not be hard to detect when and if it happens again.
Thanks for all who posted.
Regards
B
Last edited by NOT-MEE; 03-21-2006 at 07:36 AM.
03-21-2006, 05:29 AM
#47
The Darts should bolt on like the stock heads, therefore the procedure from the service manual should work fine. It calls for tightening certain rockers with the #1 piston at TDC, rotating the crankshaft 360* and tightening the rest of them. I can't remember the specific rockers that are tightened on each pass, but the service manual spells that all out.
03-21-2006, 06:58 AM
#48
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Originally Posted by vettenuts
The Darts should bolt on like the stock heads, therefore the procedure from the service manual should work fine. It calls for tightening certain rockers with the #1 piston at TDC, rotating the crankshaft 360* and tightening the rest of them. I can't remember the specific rockers that are tightened on each pass, but the service manual spells that all out.
03-21-2006, 09:42 AM
#50
Originally Posted by Wire Dog
You purchased these as bare heads correct??
Its not Darts problem, its the guy that set up the valve train.
Its like assembling an engine and not checking clearances, then blaming the crank manufacturer because it hits the piston skirt.
Its not Darts problem, its the guy that set up the valve train.
Its like assembling an engine and not checking clearances, then blaming the crank manufacturer because it hits the piston skirt.
03-21-2006, 09:52 AM
#51
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Originally Posted by 97F1R408
I dont know if dart is selling these bare without machine work as in the wholes not drilled for the rockers but I have seen personally on sbc heads If I bought a set directly from dart 230cc cnc'd by them all valvetrain would bolt up and have room to adjust with the guide plates. BUT when I bought two different sets that were bought from outside machine shops that built and machines the heads both sets needed alot of mods to get everything right. Also going to swap meets that have auctions held ive seen blocks heads etc, that were blems from dart being sold and when these guys were buying them they all had intentions of reselling so I think dart has a good quality control with someone looking over each piece. those heads are being seen on more and more cars dailly without these issues I would look else where for your problem.
They are not blems!!!!
Yes they are showing up on cars.
The heads were bought directly from dart.
Ported and assembled by a forum vendor.
Do you have a set of these exact heads?
We were looking at other parts as you can see in my posts.
Most sets that dart sent to shops on a prototype basis we never bolted on cars.
They didn't even know about the rocker guide issue till they were in full production and shipping.
03-21-2006, 11:27 AM
#52
I am still not clear specifically on what you found. Were the rockers loose?
Did you do the original installation? Do you know how the rockers were tightened down, more specifically were they tightened when the lifter was on the base circle. Inaccurate torque readings will be obtained if they are not and I am wondering if this might be the source of the problem you encountered.
Guess I am still puzzled by this, since I still don't think the tabs on the rocker stands are the cause of the issue you had. The Lingenfelter rocker stands, which are high strength steel, do not have the tabs and they have never had any problems with them shifting on the head.
Did you do the original installation? Do you know how the rockers were tightened down, more specifically were they tightened when the lifter was on the base circle. Inaccurate torque readings will be obtained if they are not and I am wondering if this might be the source of the problem you encountered.
Guess I am still puzzled by this, since I still don't think the tabs on the rocker stands are the cause of the issue you had. The Lingenfelter rocker stands, which are high strength steel, do not have the tabs and they have never had any problems with them shifting on the head.
03-21-2006, 11:27 AM
#53
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Originally Posted by NOT-MEE
They are sold bare but all holes are drilled and tapped.
They are not blems!!!!
Yes they are showing up on cars.
The heads were bought directly from dart.
Ported and assembled by a forum vendor.
Do you have a set of these exact heads?
We were looking at other parts as you can see in my posts.
Most sets that dart sent to shops on a prototype basis we never bolted on cars.
They didn't even know about the rocker guide issue till they were in full production and shipping.
They are not blems!!!!
Yes they are showing up on cars.
The heads were bought directly from dart.
Ported and assembled by a forum vendor.
Do you have a set of these exact heads?
We were looking at other parts as you can see in my posts.
Most sets that dart sent to shops on a prototype basis we never bolted on cars.
They didn't even know about the rocker guide issue till they were in full production and shipping.
03-21-2006, 01:22 PM
#54
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Originally Posted by 383LQ4SS
I dont understand how the entire row of rockers could move with all the bolts in and tight. I dont believe those little aluminum tabs hold much of anything. Certainly dont hold more than 8 steel bolts. Seems the bolts would have to be bent of the bolt holes wollowed out for this to happen.
03-21-2006, 08:51 PM
#56
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Originally Posted by vettenuts
The Darts should bolt on like the stock heads, therefore the procedure from the service manual should work fine. It calls for tightening certain rockers with the #1 piston at TDC, rotating the crankshaft 360* and tightening the rest of them. I can't remember the specific rockers that are tightened on each pass, but the service manual spells that all out.
Are you sure this is the correct procedure for stock rockers. LS1 how has;
Insert all 16 pushrods (7.400" is probably needed unless you have highly milled heads or a small cam, in which 7.350" might be needed), place pedestal back on the head, apply locktite to all the rocker center bolts and reinstall all the rockers. Torque the rockers to 22lbft.
Now, using your 24mm socket wrench, turn the motor over by hand (should be difficult as you are now building compression) and make sure the motor turns over by hand a full 720 degrees, then turn it another 360 (doesnt have to be exact or anything).
Go over all the rockers again with your wrench just to make sure they are all at 22-24'ish lbft.
I torqued all of mine at the same time.
03-21-2006, 10:31 PM
#57
Originally Posted by NOT-MEE
They are sold bare but all holes are drilled and tapped.
They are not blems!!!!
Yes they are showing up on cars.
The heads were bought directly from dart.
Ported and assembled by a forum vendor.
Do you have a set of these exact heads?
We were looking at other parts as you can see in my posts.
Most sets that dart sent to shops on a prototype basis we never bolted on cars.
They didn't even know about the rocker guide issue till they were in full production and shipping.
They are not blems!!!!
Yes they are showing up on cars.
The heads were bought directly from dart.
Ported and assembled by a forum vendor.
Do you have a set of these exact heads?
We were looking at other parts as you can see in my posts.
Most sets that dart sent to shops on a prototype basis we never bolted on cars.
They didn't even know about the rocker guide issue till they were in full production and shipping.
03-22-2006, 12:12 PM
#58
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Uhm no!
Originally Posted by lumpyu812
damn dude I am sorry to hear this. All I want to know is where in the hell is that smart *** dude from dart when you need him, he is always shitting up other threads about his heads but I bet he stays away from this one.
03-22-2006, 12:25 PM
#59
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Couldnt have said it better
Originally Posted by Wire Dog
Maybe I misunderstood your thread. It seemed to me you were quick to throw down at Dart but unwilling to look else where.
BTW even "pros" make mistakes. Don't be so quick to get offended unless your the pro.
BTW even "pros" make mistakes. Don't be so quick to get offended unless your the pro.
John
Dart
Last edited by Dart331Stroker; 03-22-2006 at 01:36 PM.
03-22-2006, 01:36 PM
#60
Welcome to the internet John 
Dont get too bitter about it, after a while you will get used to it if you stick around..
I'll just say I am very happy with my heads, car runs OK with them too and its not smoking nor are the rocker arms falling off.. I didnt even follow any 'procedure' for tightening the rockers, torqued them down, spun the motor over and checked them all again - just like I have done 500 times before.
Dont get too bitter about it, after a while you will get used to it if you stick around..I'll just say I am very happy with my heads, car runs OK with them too and its not smoking nor are the rocker arms falling off.. I didnt even follow any 'procedure' for tightening the rockers, torqued them down, spun the motor over and checked them all again - just like I have done 500 times before.