LS1 Dart head Issues All read
Originally Posted by Wire Dog
Maybe I misunderstood your thread. It seemed to me you were quick to throw down at Dart but unwilling to look else where.
BTW even "pros" make mistakes. Don't be so quick to get offended unless your the pro.
BTW even "pros" make mistakes. Don't be so quick to get offended unless your the pro.
Staging Lane
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 70
Likes: 0
From: Texas
Originally Posted by Dart331Stroker
The "pros" know but Dart who has been building heads for 25 years, and Dick Maskin who runs this place and owns it was furnace brazing heads together for Pro Stock racing back in the 70's doesnt? Thats exactly why I have stayed off this board as of late, you try to give FREE advice and people jump all over you. I am sure NOT MEE that I was the one they wanted you to talk to, I was on a much needed and first in 9 years vacation. I just returned today. I agree with Kurt at Wheel to Wheel the tabs you need to grind off are not there to keep the rocker bridge from moving it is a locater from GM for plant assembly, end of story, Kurt if people are not familiar does extensive work for GM development, if he said this it is true. He also has been using the Dart heads in their shop and on their crate engines, without any problems. If the tabs were required than aftermarket shafts would also have them and they do not. Assembled to Dart specs? How is that the case, they are not even the same parts we use?? I think it is funny that everyone is so quick to always blame something without finding out the information. Dont bash companies, that is why companies like Dart and several others I have spoke to recently dont and wont particpate on these boards, then you guys cant get good help from people at the companies who make these parts.. Watch how you ask questions choose your wording better and maybe you will get better answers.
John
Dart
John
Dart
I was merely trying to point out that perhaps it was the third party "pro's" work that was defective.
It only makes sense that it was not a Dart issue since no one else seems to have an issue.
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 51
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by Dart331Stroker
The "pros" know but Dart who has been building heads for 25 years, and Dick Maskin who runs this place and owns it was furnace brazing heads together for Pro Stock racing back in the 70's doesnt? Thats exactly why I have stayed off this board as of late, you try to give FREE advice and people jump all over you. I am sure NOT MEE that I was the one they wanted you to talk to, I was on a much needed and first in 9 years vacation. I just returned today. I agree with Kurt at Wheel to Wheel the tabs you need to grind off are not there to keep the rocker bridge from moving it is a locater from GM for plant assembly, end of story, Kurt if people are not familiar does extensive work for GM development, if he said this it is true. He also has been using the Dart heads in their shop and on their crate engines, without any problems. If the tabs were required than aftermarket shafts would also have them and they do not. Assembled to Dart specs? How is that the case, they are not even the same parts we use?? I think it is funny that everyone is so quick to always blame something without finding out the information. Dont bash companies, that is why companies like Dart and several others I have spoke to recently dont and wont particpate on these boards, then you guys cant get good help from people at the companies who make these parts.. Watch how you ask questions choose your wording better and maybe you will get better answers.
John
Dart
John
Dart
The after-market guide rails are steel not aluminum like the stock unit's.
I am probably the only one who has put over 1000 miles on the heads.
No one was blamed for anything if you read my post you will see.
We made good power with the heads but after 1000 miles we have some issues.
I contacted Dart they told me I need to speak with someone else and they were away from there desk and would return shortly.(I guess shortly is 6days.)
I can tell you this the shops who built and installed the heads buy almost every product line you sell bigblock-ls1.
I can tell you this after replacing the stock rockers and reinstalling the rocker system correctly By another shop. it is askew again after 250 miles.
I'm sure I will not be the only one with a issue in the future.
Last edited by NOT-MEE; Mar 22, 2006 at 03:36 PM.
I bought my assembled Dart 225s from Jegs in January and have put 4500 miles on them in my 2002 Z06 with the stock rockers,Comp Cam,lifters(850s) and Manley pushrods,used Cometic HGs and ground off the locators on the stock rocker arms.Cam lift is 612 and 615.Use the 918s that came with the heads.Z06 went to Florida and Back(From Long Island)No problems.
Everything runs quite and smooth.
I am about to install another set of these heads on my 408 project for 2000 Formula and will do same to the stock rockers.
I have been a Dick Maskin Fan since the AMC Days and believe in his products.
Go Ricky Smith!
Ray T
E
East Meadow NY
Everything runs quite and smooth.
I am about to install another set of these heads on my 408 project for 2000 Formula and will do same to the stock rockers.
I have been a Dick Maskin Fan since the AMC Days and believe in his products.
Go Ricky Smith!
Ray T
E
East Meadow NY Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 51
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by RayZ06
I bought my assembled Dart 225s from Jegs in January and have put 4500 miles on them in my 2002 Z06 with the stock rockers,Comp Cam,lifters(850s) and Manley pushrods,used Cometic HGs and ground off the locators on the stock rocker arms.Cam lift is 612 and 615.Use the 918s that came with the heads.Z06 went to Florida and Back(From Long Island)No problems.
Everything runs quite and smooth.
I am about to install another set of these heads on my 408 project for 2000 Formula and will do same to the stock rockers.
I have been a Dick Maskin Fan since the AMC Days and believe in his products.
Go Ricky Smith!
Ray T
E East Meadow NY
Everything runs quite and smooth.
I am about to install another set of these heads on my 408 project for 2000 Formula and will do same to the stock rockers.
I have been a Dick Maskin Fan since the AMC Days and believe in his products.
Go Ricky Smith!
Ray T
E
East Meadow NY
Originally Posted by NOT-MEE
I am probably the only one who has put over 1000 miles on the heads.
No one was blamed for anything if you read my post you will see.
We made good power with the heads but after 1000 miles we have some issues.
No one was blamed for anything if you read my post you will see.
We made good power with the heads but after 1000 miles we have some issues.
Looks like you're in your own boat. You should probably thank your engine builder.
On The Tree
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 102
Likes: 0
From: Suburbs of Detroit
Heads
Originally Posted by NOT-MEE
John it would be nice if they told someone you were on vacation rather than away from you desk.
The after-market guide rails are steel not aluminum like the stock unit's.
I am probably the only one who has put over 1000 miles on the heads.
No one was blamed for anything if you read my post you will see.
We made good power with the heads but after 1000 miles we have some issues.
I contacted Dart they told me I need to speak with someone else and they were away from there desk and would return shortly.(I guess shortly is 6days.)
I can tell you this the shops who built and installed the heads buy almost every product line you sell bigblock-ls1.
I can tell you this after replacing the stock rockers and reinstalling the rocker system correctly By another shop. it is askew again after 250 miles.
I'm sure I will not be the only one with a issue in the future.
The after-market guide rails are steel not aluminum like the stock unit's.
I am probably the only one who has put over 1000 miles on the heads.
No one was blamed for anything if you read my post you will see.
We made good power with the heads but after 1000 miles we have some issues.
I contacted Dart they told me I need to speak with someone else and they were away from there desk and would return shortly.(I guess shortly is 6days.)
I can tell you this the shops who built and installed the heads buy almost every product line you sell bigblock-ls1.
I can tell you this after replacing the stock rockers and reinstalling the rocker system correctly By another shop. it is askew again after 250 miles.
I'm sure I will not be the only one with a issue in the future.
I will let you know what I come up with..
John
Dart
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NOT-MEE,
I have gone back and re-read everything. I know who assembled the heads, and he has a good reputation. I really think you need to re-examine the rockers. You have 110,000 miles on them, and are now running all aftermarket parts with the exception of the rockers. I am not sure, but I also think 99 was one of those years that had some rocker bearing issues anyhow. I have a feeling that they are tired and may have increased tolerance due to the miles. I know you stated earlier they were checked, but this is one area that I think may still be responsible for the side to side movement you are seeing, especially in only 250 miles. You might also try looking on the first rocker on #2 through the oil fill hole and see how it is moving.
I have gone back and re-read everything. I know who assembled the heads, and he has a good reputation. I really think you need to re-examine the rockers. You have 110,000 miles on them, and are now running all aftermarket parts with the exception of the rockers. I am not sure, but I also think 99 was one of those years that had some rocker bearing issues anyhow. I have a feeling that they are tired and may have increased tolerance due to the miles. I know you stated earlier they were checked, but this is one area that I think may still be responsible for the side to side movement you are seeing, especially in only 250 miles. You might also try looking on the first rocker on #2 through the oil fill hole and see how it is moving.
Last edited by vettenuts; Mar 22, 2006 at 04:18 PM.
Yea, as I posted above my tolerances on my rockers were NOT good, and that was at 50K on them ( original from 99 ) with 20K being used on H/C applications. Harland Sharp rebuilt them for a great price.
On The Tree
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 102
Likes: 0
From: Suburbs of Detroit
Heads I know the assembler and yes he is highly regarded on this site as someone who knows the parts. I spoke to him in regards to the assembled heights and all is well there. I would agree with vettenuts and viper, with that kind of mileage and know new higher spring pressures they more than likely are causing some problems. Changing them would be a wise idea, if not for the cure of this problem, just to prevent a bigger cost when and if one fails.
John
Dart
P.S. The Curtis Built rockers are pretty nice pieces, and fairly priced as well..he has a really trick adjustable one also.
John
Dart
P.S. The Curtis Built rockers are pretty nice pieces, and fairly priced as well..he has a really trick adjustable one also.
I have Dart 225's and there is no way the problem could happen from the heads cause.
Its got to be a problem with the rockers themselves I am guessing. If worse comes to worse and you can't figure it out, order some harland sharp rockers.
Its got to be a problem with the rockers themselves I am guessing. If worse comes to worse and you can't figure it out, order some harland sharp rockers.
Originally Posted by NOT-MEE
If I was going to bash dart I would of done it in the title.
Maybe you should take the word Dart out of you title, from what it sounds like they are not your problem. Theres a lot of people that get on here to research products and when they see a thread title stating there might be a problem with them it might scare some people off.
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 51
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by vettenuts
NOT-MEE,
I have gone back and re-read everything. I know who assembled the heads, and he has a good reputation. I really think you need to re-examine the rockers. You have 110,000 miles on them, and are now running all aftermarket parts with the exception of the rockers. I am not sure, but I also think 99 was one of those years that had some rocker bearing issues anyhow. I have a feeling that they are tired and may have increased tolerance due to the miles. I know you stated earlier they were checked, but this is one area that I think may still be responsible for the side to side movement you are seeing, especially in only 250 miles. You might also try looking on the first rocker on #2 through the oil fill hole and see how it is moving.
I have gone back and re-read everything. I know who assembled the heads, and he has a good reputation. I really think you need to re-examine the rockers. You have 110,000 miles on them, and are now running all aftermarket parts with the exception of the rockers. I am not sure, but I also think 99 was one of those years that had some rocker bearing issues anyhow. I have a feeling that they are tired and may have increased tolerance due to the miles. I know you stated earlier they were checked, but this is one area that I think may still be responsible for the side to side movement you are seeing, especially in only 250 miles. You might also try looking on the first rocker on #2 through the oil fill hole and see how it is moving.
And when we reinstalled i replaced with another set to make sure it was not rockers
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 51
Likes: 0
I have looked at several after-market heads that do the same thing with the guide. Some actually supply a new stronger rocker guide with there heads.
We are going to replace the stock rockers in the next few days with a after-market set.
We are going to replace the stock rockers in the next few days with a after-market set.
Originally Posted by 02Z28
Maybe you should take the word Dart out of you title, from what it sounds like they are not your problem. Theres a lot of people that get on here to research products and when they see a thread title stating there might be a problem with them it might scare some people off.
I'm in the market for a new set of heads and if I was in a bigger hurry I would have probably changed my mind about getting dart heads.But I have followed this thread everyday and have decided to wait a couple of months for more feedback and dyno results.Glad to see the guy from dart chime in though,customer service is very important to me. Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 51
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by Jake the SSnake
I'm in the market for a new set of heads and if I was in a bigger hurry I would have probably changed my mind about getting dart heads.But I have followed this thread everyday and have decided to wait a couple of months for more feedback and dyno results.Glad to see the guy from dart chime in though,customer service is very important to me.I never pointed finger at anyone. Just stated facts and was trying to collect theories. I have now paid a shop for head install and another independent shop for deinstall and reinstall. Now I will pay someone to do it again. I didn't want to start throwing parts at the car and still have same issue.
Dart is now involved and they are giving input to everyone involved.
I didn't design the heads, when a weird issue comes up who would you call?
Originally Posted by NOT-MEE
Why should I remove Dart from title? What happens 7 mos from now and someone has the same issue.
I never pointed finger at anyone. Just stated facts and was trying to collect theories. I have now paid a shop for head install and another independent shop for deinstall and reinstall. Now I will pay someone to do it again. I didn't want to start throwing parts at the car and still have same issue.
Dart is now involved and they are giving input to everyone involved.
I didn't design the heads, when a weird issue comes up who would you call?
I never pointed finger at anyone. Just stated facts and was trying to collect theories. I have now paid a shop for head install and another independent shop for deinstall and reinstall. Now I will pay someone to do it again. I didn't want to start throwing parts at the car and still have same issue.
Dart is now involved and they are giving input to everyone involved.
I didn't design the heads, when a weird issue comes up who would you call?
but just reading through the thread and seeing what has happened I don't blame you I would be upset if I had to go through all that paying shops to redo everything.Glad your keeping us informed and I hope everything works out in the end 
Last edited by Jake the SSnake; Mar 22, 2006 at 06:27 PM.
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 51
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by Dart331Stroker
I know the assembler and yes he is highly regarded on this site as someone who knows the parts. I spoke to him in regards to the assembled heights and all is well there. I would agree with vettenuts and viper, with that kind of mileage and know new higher spring pressures they more than likely are causing some problems. Changing them would be a wise idea, if not for the cure of this problem, just to prevent a bigger cost when and if one fails.
John
Dart
P.S. The Curtis Built rockers are pretty nice pieces, and fairly priced as well..he has a really trick adjustable one also.
John
Dart
P.S. The Curtis Built rockers are pretty nice pieces, and fairly priced as well..he has a really trick adjustable one also.
I really hate the idea of throwing parts at the problem.