Torque coming out of my EARS! (cam change)
04-07-2006, 11:02 AM
#121
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Originally Posted by JakeFusion
Patrick, I'm very interested to see your results. DCR is key to great average power as I've been preaching for a while.
Btw, some of the best results I've ever witnesses came with an ICL on a 110 and DCR up around 8.8:1 for a 346.
Btw, some of the best results I've ever witnesses came with an ICL on a 110 and DCR up around 8.8:1 for a 346.
04-07-2006, 11:14 AM
#122
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Patrick, awesome write-up. I've been one to lean more toward a wider LSA for a long time now, but it sounds like you may make me change my way of thinking.
One question... would this cam profile be useful on stock heads, or even work at all? I have 853s and can't really run grab a set of (insert brand name here) heads and slap'em on whenever I want to. I don't see our car doing much faster than what you can go legally without a rollbar/cage, but I want to do it right the first time.
One question... would this cam profile be useful on stock heads, or even work at all? I have 853s and can't really run grab a set of (insert brand name here) heads and slap'em on whenever I want to. I don't see our car doing much faster than what you can go legally without a rollbar/cage, but I want to do it right the first time.
04-07-2006, 11:16 AM
#123
Originally Posted by black_z
What is the formula for calculating DCR? Thanks
This is a sticky in the advanced tech section.
04-07-2006, 11:27 AM
#124
Originally Posted by Ric
One question... would this cam profile be useful on stock heads, or even work at all? I have 853s and can't really run grab a set of (insert brand name here) heads and slap'em on whenever I want to. I don't see our car doing much faster than what you can go legally without a rollbar/cage, but I want to do it right the first time.
04-07-2006, 12:19 PM
#125
Originally Posted by Patrick G
At Thunder Racing, we tested the AFR duals (same as PRC/Manley/Patriot duals). They had nearly identical spring rate to the Comp 921s, but just didn't have quite as much coil bind area. By shimming them to within .050" of coil bind, I believe you can run PRC duals with LSK lobes with no problem. They seem to have enough spring pressure. Whether they'll be as robust as the Comp 921s remains to be seen, but they sure are lots cheaper! If I were to do it again, I would have saved the money and kept my AFR duals (with the proper shimming of course). FWIW, we had an installed height of 1.740" when running 921s.
Thanks again for the very thorough answer. I really want to see some dyno numbers!
04-08-2006, 01:46 AM
#127
Originally Posted by Spinmonster
What about running the 1.8 quick lift rockers with the 224/228 XER for those that already have it? It would seem to work well. The faster open speed is present with the 1.7's as Tony Mamo used in his set-up and with the 1.8's. The advantage with the 1.8's though would be that you would have the added lift to both lobes. It wouldnt have the overlap as the cam you now have but would have some of the other advantages such as faster opening from the variable ratio and added lift.
04-08-2006, 09:42 AM
#128
With an appropriately shimmed valvespring, I think this would be a good approach to getting more lift (with a touch more duration at the valve). A .581 intake would now be .615" lift. But keep in mind, the real key to the Torque Cam working so well is not just the lift, but the good valve events for maximizing power under the curve:
Intake valve closing point around 43 degrees ABDC at .050" (to match the runner length of the intake manifold).
Dynamic compression at 8.73:1 (to make abundant torque).
Overlap slightly biased on the intake side (to pull well above peak hp).
Later exhaust valve opening (to better build torque).
So adding lift to an XE-R lobe does not ensure you'll have more torque and power if your valve events are not properly chosen. By the way, the Torque Cam I'm using has LSK lobes (high lift) on both the intake and exhaust lobes.
Intake valve closing point around 43 degrees ABDC at .050" (to match the runner length of the intake manifold).
Dynamic compression at 8.73:1 (to make abundant torque).
Overlap slightly biased on the intake side (to pull well above peak hp).
Later exhaust valve opening (to better build torque).
So adding lift to an XE-R lobe does not ensure you'll have more torque and power if your valve events are not properly chosen. By the way, the Torque Cam I'm using has LSK lobes (high lift) on both the intake and exhaust lobes.
__________________
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
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2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
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2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
04-08-2006, 03:01 PM
#129
You had said that the ramp rate on the LSK then approached solid roller performance with these rockers; doesn't the ramp rate of the XER lobes then also benefit from the use of higher ratio rockers? I have the rockers and had originally planned to sell them when I put my 224/230 XER 114 in but I will try this out and report back if you are interested. I have crane 832's shimmed to 1.74 and the FAST 90 on my C6.
The variable rate lift of the rockers is marketed as a way to gain area under the curve by increasing the lift more in early and mid-lift points than just the max lift at peak lobe. Isn't this similar in how the LSK performs? I agree it is a difference in degree as to how much lift is increased at points other than peak.
The variable rate lift of the rockers is marketed as a way to gain area under the curve by increasing the lift more in early and mid-lift points than just the max lift at peak lobe. Isn't this similar in how the LSK performs? I agree it is a difference in degree as to how much lift is increased at points other than peak.
04-08-2006, 03:10 PM
#131
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50, but the lsk is 4 degrees more aggressive at .2 then a xer. So for example my cam in my sig that i just ordred looks more like a 232/236 at .2 but with even more lift.
04-08-2006, 03:46 PM
#132
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Patrick again let us know the results when you dyno. I love the theory behind this excellent discussion, and Im also very interested in what kind of spring life will be real world results. Thanks for being the innovator.
04-10-2006, 05:06 PM
#135
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Hmm, I just picked up at 383 z06 with AFR 225s and am interested in changing the cam in her (232/236 .576/.578 114 476rwhp)
A few questions for you-
1. How is a DCR that high going to work with 91 octane?
2. Do you have reservations with that high of lift on a road race car?
A few questions for you-
1. How is a DCR that high going to work with 91 octane?
2. Do you have reservations with that high of lift on a road race car?
04-11-2006, 01:16 PM
#136
Originally Posted by Patrick G
Look here: https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=394937
This is a sticky in the advanced tech section.
This is a sticky in the advanced tech section.
It would be great if different lobe profiles were available in that spreadsheet so one could compare same cams with different lobes. BTW, what lobes are being used in that spreadsheet?
04-11-2006, 01:29 PM
#137
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Originally Posted by Dom
Great info! That shows a cam like 224/224 112 to have 0 overlap. I'm just wondering if I'm doing this right.
It would be great if different lobe profiles were available in that spreadsheet so one could compare same cams with different lobes. BTW, what lobes are being used in that spreadsheet?
It would be great if different lobe profiles were available in that spreadsheet so one could compare same cams with different lobes. BTW, what lobes are being used in that spreadsheet?
You can you just have to enter the durations for .06, .05, and .200 then you got your lobe profile. In the cam guide sticky theres a list of all the xe and xe-r lobes for .06, .05, and .200. Also heres https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthrea...ight=lsk+lobes a list of all the lsk lobes too.
Just go to compare 4 cams and just enter all the right info and you'll be able to compare all the cams you want at .06, .05, .200, and you can also put them in the dcr calculator and see what that comes out to.
Very handy tool, makes it real easy to see exactly how each cam compares, and should react.
Justin
04-12-2006, 10:51 AM
#140
Originally Posted by camarokid94
did you check P/V clearance?
anyone know if that would work with 30milled afr 205s and 30 gaskets?
anyone know if that would work with 30milled afr 205s and 30 gaskets?