View Poll Results: M1, RP, or GC (FULL SYNTHETIC)
Mobil 1 5w30
249
40.82%
Royal Purple 5w30
195
31.97%
German Castrol 0w40
166
27.21%
Voters: 610. You may not vote on this poll
Mobil 1 Royal Purple or GC
12-21-2006, 06:31 AM
#121
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Originally Posted by mullenh
Amsoil is a fine oil we do use it and sell it, we also like lucas oil additives. But to protect that cam ya oughta ad a bit of race oil. Or don't
The cam is not different than any other part of the motor. A good oil will protect all the parts.... Even with oil restrictors in my 462 race motor, my Pontiac never gave me trouble in the top end.
12-21-2006, 09:13 AM
#122
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i don't know what the point was of putting the 462 motor stats was but you missed. it is a nice motor i am sure but it is a street engine. however if your are racing it and you want it to hold up, instead of buying a label like my wife does, you should buy the ingredients. it is what is in the oil not who made it. you think that proffesional racers use off the shelf oils? hell no. why do they make race oil? because race engines require it. of course it could be all hype right? no. go look up castol race oil, or redline and there are a bunch of others i can't remember or i don't realy give a damn to mention. i do have a few race motors that our shop built on the floor right now all of them are 355s. two of them turn well over 8,000 rpm at over 13 to 1 compression . your 462 although a nice engine would not match up.
note; 10.09x131=1327 ideal calculation is 1335 try reducing gear a bit, you are close. if you were higher than 1335 you would need less.
note; 10.09x131=1327 ideal calculation is 1335 try reducing gear a bit, you are close. if you were higher than 1335 you would need less.
Last edited by mullenh; 12-21-2006 at 10:11 AM.
12-23-2006, 08:53 PM
#123
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Originally Posted by scrmnws6
After 3000 miles in the Sierra, I will be sending in the oil to be analyzed just to check things out.
how much does it usually cost for the analysis???
ive been wanting to do that for quite some time now
12-23-2006, 11:52 PM
#124
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I started using Mobile 1 when it first came out 29 years ago. I
used it in everything that could be called an engine until I
purchased my Jaguar.
The Jaguar, a 95 XJR had 70,000 miles on it. When I removed the cam
cover to replace a leaking gasket, the goopy deposits around the cams and cam followers was so thick it looked like black jello. I replaced the gasket and reinstalled the cover. I heard that Amsoil --- all hype aside --- did a better job of cleaning an engine than any other oil available
After three months, I changed the oil and pulled the cam cover again.
Everything had a nice uniform gold color, except the contact
surfaces of SOME of the cam lobes. There was no goop anyplace,
and there was no residue that could be wiped off with your finger.
I don't have an explanation for the gold color. Subsequently I have switched all 7 of my motorized toys to Amsoil 20W 50 Racing Oil. Including the 390ci LQ9 in my RX7. I continue to use Redline automatic transmission oil in all of my AT cars.
My primary motivation for using Mobile 1 was a paper in Circle
Track Magazine written by Smokie around 1977 or 78. He explained how dino
oils, particularly 10W 40 would leave a deposit on the top compression ring that prevented it from moving freely in the lands. This would cause it to eventually get stuck in the lands, causing a loss of power and dramatically increasing blow-by. He very strongly suggested that 10W 40 oil was responsible for the failure of most engines in the US. His explanation was that the high percentage of viscosity improving polymer (>40%) did not provide lubrication but worse, it left a hard deposit on the top compression ring when it burned.
Two years later there was not a single (to my knowledge) auto manufacture in the US recommending 10W 40 oil. All had by then started recommending 10W30. Although it would take 20 years for any of them to recommend the use of full synthetics.
During the 26 years that I used Mobile 1, I found that Smokey was
correct. I had the opportunity to disassemble several engines that
I had driven over 200,000 miles using Mobile 1 from the day they were
new. There was insignificant hard deposits on the rings/lands. And most of the surfaces inside the engines had a very thin, soft, gray layer/deposit that you could easily wipe off with your finger.
My experience with Amsoil is:
It absolutely cleans dirty Jaguar engines! I have not disassembled the Jaguar engine so I can not speak about its ring lands. Also, I don’t have a clue where the gold color is from.
The race engines get disassembled several times a year so they don’t count. There is no opportunity for any deposits to form. And there is no color formed either. I will look inside some of
my street engines this summer and possibly be able to add some intelligent information.
Please keep in mind that when an oil distributor states that the viscosity of a particular oil is 10W 30. it could be 10W 30 or 10W 35 or 10W 39. I believe that is what you guys are experiencing with the noise and the dropping oil pressure at temperature. When comparing oils you need more information before calling one good or bad.
Relating your experience with your engine is very helpful but with so many variables in factory assembled engines each one is different and if you find something that works stick with it. But every one is going to find something different when it comes to oil – always have and always will.
By the way if you want the most power get your oil up to a bit over 300F before you stage. There was a study made by one of the aircraft engine manufactures and they claimed that they experienced less ware and more HP when the oil was at 300F than any other temperature. But they were not LSx engines but they were sleeved aluminum blocks. Of course they made 250HP at 1800RPM and they were big flat 6’s . But they had pushrods. .
With dino oil 260 is where the oil starts to break down i.e., for every 10degree increase above 260F your oil's life is cut in half. I'm not sure about the other synthetics but the half life thing does not take effect in Mobile 1 until it reaches close to 600F.
I personally like the added high pressure lubricity of Rotilla and the racing oils. And I will continue to use them. In addition, an oil that keeps things clean has a great deal of appeal also.
Three years ago I had occasion to drive 200 miles every day 5 days a week for over a year. During 15 below days in winter and up to 105 in the summer. Most of the time I was driving a 95 Astro Van with myself and six teenagers in it. It had 140,000 on the clock when I started using it for that purpose. I put some 20W 50 Amsoil in it and didn't change it nor did I add any oil for 40,000 miles. I finally changed it because I felt guilty. To day the Astrovan is still running very nicely on 20W 50 Racing Amsoil with 213,000 on the clock. It gets changed once a year as do all of my cars. Except the race engines. Their oil filters are very closely examined after every night of racing. And they are not canister filters. So its easy.
Don't forget, there is something to be said for the idea that heaver oil will cling to bearing surfaces when the engine is shut off, as opposed to running off the bearings as may be the case with 0W and 5W oils will or maybe not. Who knows, I've looked inside hundreds of engines during my 60 years of driving and racing and I'm still not sure of what is actually happening to the oil inside a engine. And When I was being paid for what I knew, I was a consulting engineer and was thought to know those things..
One more note. the only part in an LSx engine that is interchangeable with the earlier 350 SBC engines is the connecting rod bearings and their clearance is the same i.e., .002 in or as the spec says .0009 to .003
The main bearing clearance for LSx engines is a bit tighter .0021 for an LSx and .0025 for the old SBC. The crank end play is much tighter .0015 to .0078 as opposed to .0025 to .015 for the SBC. But the important one is basically the same!! so I choose not to believe that the newer engines are "tighter" than the old SBC. The LQ9 has a dry sump with an external pressure pump and three scavenger pumps so it's a totally different story.
Regards
Pete
used it in everything that could be called an engine until I
purchased my Jaguar.
The Jaguar, a 95 XJR had 70,000 miles on it. When I removed the cam
cover to replace a leaking gasket, the goopy deposits around the cams and cam followers was so thick it looked like black jello. I replaced the gasket and reinstalled the cover. I heard that Amsoil --- all hype aside --- did a better job of cleaning an engine than any other oil available
After three months, I changed the oil and pulled the cam cover again.
Everything had a nice uniform gold color, except the contact
surfaces of SOME of the cam lobes. There was no goop anyplace,
and there was no residue that could be wiped off with your finger.
I don't have an explanation for the gold color. Subsequently I have switched all 7 of my motorized toys to Amsoil 20W 50 Racing Oil. Including the 390ci LQ9 in my RX7. I continue to use Redline automatic transmission oil in all of my AT cars.
My primary motivation for using Mobile 1 was a paper in Circle
Track Magazine written by Smokie around 1977 or 78. He explained how dino
oils, particularly 10W 40 would leave a deposit on the top compression ring that prevented it from moving freely in the lands. This would cause it to eventually get stuck in the lands, causing a loss of power and dramatically increasing blow-by. He very strongly suggested that 10W 40 oil was responsible for the failure of most engines in the US. His explanation was that the high percentage of viscosity improving polymer (>40%) did not provide lubrication but worse, it left a hard deposit on the top compression ring when it burned.
Two years later there was not a single (to my knowledge) auto manufacture in the US recommending 10W 40 oil. All had by then started recommending 10W30. Although it would take 20 years for any of them to recommend the use of full synthetics.
During the 26 years that I used Mobile 1, I found that Smokey was
correct. I had the opportunity to disassemble several engines that
I had driven over 200,000 miles using Mobile 1 from the day they were
new. There was insignificant hard deposits on the rings/lands. And most of the surfaces inside the engines had a very thin, soft, gray layer/deposit that you could easily wipe off with your finger.
My experience with Amsoil is:
It absolutely cleans dirty Jaguar engines! I have not disassembled the Jaguar engine so I can not speak about its ring lands. Also, I don’t have a clue where the gold color is from.
The race engines get disassembled several times a year so they don’t count. There is no opportunity for any deposits to form. And there is no color formed either. I will look inside some of
my street engines this summer and possibly be able to add some intelligent information.
Please keep in mind that when an oil distributor states that the viscosity of a particular oil is 10W 30. it could be 10W 30 or 10W 35 or 10W 39. I believe that is what you guys are experiencing with the noise and the dropping oil pressure at temperature. When comparing oils you need more information before calling one good or bad.
Relating your experience with your engine is very helpful but with so many variables in factory assembled engines each one is different and if you find something that works stick with it. But every one is going to find something different when it comes to oil – always have and always will.
By the way if you want the most power get your oil up to a bit over 300F before you stage. There was a study made by one of the aircraft engine manufactures and they claimed that they experienced less ware and more HP when the oil was at 300F than any other temperature. But they were not LSx engines but they were sleeved aluminum blocks. Of course they made 250HP at 1800RPM and they were big flat 6’s . But they had pushrods. .
With dino oil 260 is where the oil starts to break down i.e., for every 10degree increase above 260F your oil's life is cut in half. I'm not sure about the other synthetics but the half life thing does not take effect in Mobile 1 until it reaches close to 600F.
I personally like the added high pressure lubricity of Rotilla and the racing oils. And I will continue to use them. In addition, an oil that keeps things clean has a great deal of appeal also.
Three years ago I had occasion to drive 200 miles every day 5 days a week for over a year. During 15 below days in winter and up to 105 in the summer. Most of the time I was driving a 95 Astro Van with myself and six teenagers in it. It had 140,000 on the clock when I started using it for that purpose. I put some 20W 50 Amsoil in it and didn't change it nor did I add any oil for 40,000 miles. I finally changed it because I felt guilty. To day the Astrovan is still running very nicely on 20W 50 Racing Amsoil with 213,000 on the clock. It gets changed once a year as do all of my cars. Except the race engines. Their oil filters are very closely examined after every night of racing. And they are not canister filters. So its easy.
Don't forget, there is something to be said for the idea that heaver oil will cling to bearing surfaces when the engine is shut off, as opposed to running off the bearings as may be the case with 0W and 5W oils will or maybe not. Who knows, I've looked inside hundreds of engines during my 60 years of driving and racing and I'm still not sure of what is actually happening to the oil inside a engine. And When I was being paid for what I knew, I was a consulting engineer and was thought to know those things..
One more note. the only part in an LSx engine that is interchangeable with the earlier 350 SBC engines is the connecting rod bearings and their clearance is the same i.e., .002 in or as the spec says .0009 to .003
The main bearing clearance for LSx engines is a bit tighter .0021 for an LSx and .0025 for the old SBC. The crank end play is much tighter .0015 to .0078 as opposed to .0025 to .015 for the SBC. But the important one is basically the same!! so I choose not to believe that the newer engines are "tighter" than the old SBC. The LQ9 has a dry sump with an external pressure pump and three scavenger pumps so it's a totally different story.
Regards
Pete
12-24-2006, 08:03 AM
#125
Originally Posted by GJL0180
I used M1 5w-30 for two oil changes and could not go more than 3500 miles before having to add 1 quart of oil. So I changed to AMSOIL 0w-30 (TSO) and have had no oil consumption problems and I only change my oil every 25000 miles. I also like the fact it's made in the USA and does not contain crude oil.
Last edited by INMY01TA; 12-24-2006 at 11:50 AM.
Very uneducated statement there.
12-24-2006, 08:07 AM
#127
Originally Posted by SSpdDmon
I voted GC...but, would stick with the 5w30. Even though it's a 30w, it's still thicker than the M1 30w.
Last edited by INMY01TA; 12-24-2006 at 11:52 AM.
12-24-2006, 04:27 PM
#129
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SpeedyPal thanks for the post. I wish you had included the missing properties of modern oil too. The main thing is the new modern oils were not designed for the accelerated ramp rate of these new aftermarket cams. Whereas race oil is better suited for it. And wow you drive a lot. All those miles on the jag must have cost a fortune in upkeep.
12-26-2006, 08:41 AM
#130
i've always used royal purple 5-30 in my 2002 LS1 and throughout the car as well... (tranny & diff.)
i've used RP 10-40 in my 1985 383 stroker and never had oil burning (except what little came through the breather gromet and baked away on top of the valve cover.) i would try 10-40 from RP and get a catch can kit. if that doesn't help, then maybe you have a problem? also, if you live in the south( i live in FL) the heat during the peak of summer has an effect too. i'm switching to a heavier oil next oil change.
i've used RP 10-40 in my 1985 383 stroker and never had oil burning (except what little came through the breather gromet and baked away on top of the valve cover.) i would try 10-40 from RP and get a catch can kit. if that doesn't help, then maybe you have a problem? also, if you live in the south( i live in FL) the heat during the peak of summer has an effect too. i'm switching to a heavier oil next oil change.
12-26-2006, 04:47 PM
#131
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If everyone REALLY wants to know what is going on with their oil and inside the engine WHY NOT GET an analysis?? it's only $25 at the amsoil store...Cheaper than the oil change!!
12-29-2006, 04:00 AM
#132
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Royal purple here i was not running moble 1 just kendle gt1 synthetic its was my work had. well i switched oils and i have to say the royal purple has been very good color is not burnt like my moble 1 would be when i first purchased my car that what i used. High rpms the oil pressure doesnt keep rising it stays at a reasonable level with out moving up or droping. The price is a bit steep though. and I run the RP syncromesh in my tranny it always made alot of noise but it still hasnt ever grinded a gear. Amsoil is great also i know this from my brother which live by the stuff so either or is a great choice in my opinion.
12-29-2006, 08:55 PM
#135
I'll throw 3 cents in. I have a friend who sells Amsoil. He did a brake test on a piece of metal. With amsoil he was able to scour the metal significantly. He then added some MAXI-LUBE(google it) to the Amsoil and tried again. This time he had to use much more pressure and was only able to put a small mark on the piece of metal. As good as synthetic oils are they can be improved on.
12-30-2006, 01:16 AM
#136
Originally Posted by wannafbody
I'll throw 3 cents in. I have a friend who sells Amsoil. He did a brake test on a piece of metal. With amsoil he was able to scour the metal significantly. He then added some MAXI-LUBE(google it) to the Amsoil and tried again. This time he had to use much more pressure and was only able to put a small mark on the piece of metal. As good as synthetic oils are they can be improved on.
