Trevor @ Texas Speed & Perf.

iTrader: (3)

SVT,

I'm going to dyno them together on the same engine, same dyno, same day. We'll know how they compare very soon We'll make sure the dyno runs start low in the rpm range to see how they compare across the board.

SVT THIS

iTrader: (27)

Cool well you should be hearing from me soon after you post the numbers. I look forward to doing business with you all. I've heard nothing but good things about your service. TTT for others with experience with these combos!

SVT THIS

iTrader: (27)

Also, in regards to Asmodeus's post I already have a box of Patriot Gold dual springs so I should be set!

Ksett

This will be a pretty cool test. I think a 228R cam, your middle of the road cam would be nice to see on this test. Plus to be fair all 3 heads should have the same compression ratio setup to compare apples to apples. JMO, but you'll have naysayers if the CR is different between the heads.

Cobraeater

Jason,

What happened?

Patrick G

iTrader: (14)

First off, thanks for thinking of me in this comparison Jason. I'd love to come up to Lubbock to see the comparison. Not so much to see who comes out on top, but as much to see how far your operation has come in such a short time.

Now on to the next order of business. How I feel about your products, specifically your CNC'd cylinder heads. Actually, my feelings are mostly positive, especially with your new LS6 product. I think you guys have nailed the elusive combination of excellent head flow and strong value.

But when someone takes your LS6 heads, adds the competition valve job (worth the money) and upgrades to the better springs, they are within a hundred dollars or two to the Darts. That said, I think the Darts offer comparable flow numbers, slightly smaller runner sizes and more room to grow for future porting. So in this case, it's not that I dislike the PRC CNC'd LS6 heads, I like them a lot, I just think that for a few hundred dollars more, I'd rather go with the Darts.

It's common knowledge that I am a fan of AFR, but actually, I'm a fan of anything that makes solid, consistent power. That said, one of the best cylinder heads I've ever seen, were the PRC 5.3L heads you sold to Jason Reibert from Thunder Racing. Although it was obvious that they had extensive hand porting beyond the CNC job, it was also obvious that they outflowed and outpowered my AFR 205s. No argument here. A testimony to the capabilities of your porters.

So in a nutshell, although I'm a big fan of the aftermarket heads like ET and AFR, I've grown to appreciate the new CNC 243 product from PRC and dare I say Patriot? What I'm not as big a fan of are some of the cams you sell to the low compression street/strip crowd. I like the XE-R lobes you use and I don't have a problem with the power the cams make, but I think you guys are missing the mark on maximizing the area under the curve. Without lots of dynamic compression, your cams like the MS3 tend to sacrifice lots of mid-range torque in exchange for small gains in top-end power. I think with a little more focus on cams that build dynamic compression while maintaining top-end performance, your cylinder heads would not be blamed for the soft torque numbers your packages are currently producing. Again, like the cylinder heads, not crazy about those large-duration, wide-LSA cams. Better cams would make your heads/cam packages look like the best deal going IMO.

steveb

I'm a little bias as i have the PRC heads, but i don't think the darts would have done any better. Hands down the best for the buck. I made some great number with my combo and its pretty basic out of the box stuff without any extra work done to any of the parts. I really think there is probally another 25 plus hp in my combo with a few small changes, Looks like be taking the heads off , fly cutting the pistons, switching to 1 7/8 headers and getting some bullets mufflers and this budget H/C will make power with the best of them. Jason i'll be giving you a call about the headers.
Steve

SVT THIS

iTrader: (27)

I would gamble to say you could've seen close to 400tq if you had a set of Dart 205s or 225s steveb. I'm not positive, but the Darts seem to have an advantage when it comes to torque over the GM cast LS6 heads.

Jason 98 TA

iTrader: (4)

I understand what your saying Patrick & thats the main reason I'm on the dyno next week. We have several different camshafts going together that should work really well & help out DCR.

We just recently changed up the LS6 head to include extra compression while not losing p/v for guys wanting extra compression. This change combined with a more dcr friendly camshaft should make the package even more potent!

It just seems like at times guys choose a cylinder head based off false information given on this site. We will be comparing each of these cylinder heads on the same day to try to get a idea of which ones make power & where.

There's a lot more things to consider in a cylinder head rather than just flow & runner size. I'll take a head that has a bigger runner & doesn't back up by .610" over a small runner that backs up early any day.

I guess all I'm saying is to many people get caught up in small runners & don't really understand how many different things occur in a cylinder head.

Ask some of the head gurus from the School of Automotive Machinist & they'll tell you a cylinder head that doesn't try to backup, or does it later typically makes better power on the dyno. Even if it means making the runner larger...

steveb

Cant really say i agree with you, here is an example of the darts on a smaller cam. I would rather leave 10 FtPound on the table if i could have 30 plus hp. I know this isn't apples to apples its just an example.

I thought you bought PP heads?

Jason 98 TA

iTrader: (4)

I think I'd take that bet SVT. I don't think you'd see the torque gains your expecting. Making the runner smaller doesn't necessarily get extra torque if you give up air flow at the same time.

That would be a interesting comparison.

vettenuts

iTrader: (4)

Hey, I think I recognize that dyno

I bought my Dart heads from Jason as well last Christmas. Also, don't forget I am not running 25% underdrive, only 10% and I am running 2-3/4 cats as well.

Layn_Low_247

iTrader: (1)

TSP Heads

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iTrader: (27)

I did buy Patriot 5.3s but they're gonna be up for sale soon!

calongo_SS

iTrader: (7)

A little off topic, but how does the T to V clearence change when going from the stock valved GM casting (such as PRC LS6) to the aftermarket casting with bigger valves, but a thicker deck? Anyone know how much differnce there is?

steveb

Hope you didn't mind, just need it as an example.

Patrick G

iTrader: (14)

Isn't that the truth. I'd rather have a head that makes 280 cfm at .500, 290 at .600 and .295 at .700, than a head that make 295 at .500, 305 at .600" and 280 at .700". You want a quiet port that doesn't back up at higher lifts. You learn a lot hanging out with guys like Casey Schnieder and Greg Good from SAM. They're on the cutting edge of cylinder head theory and application.

When you run your tests on the cylinder heads, it will be interesting to see what combustion chamber cc you're going to run for all the heads and what camshaft you choose.

steveb

He bought the darts from TSP.

waterbug1999

iTrader: (3)

I would have liked to see these results as well. I got my CNC'd Darts sittin in the box still.

cantdrv65

iTrader: (3)

Now thats what I call STEPPING UP TO THE PLATE! I think the results of this test could suprise the Ls1tech masses, and really show the value of the head program TSP has come up with....