Are ls1's tougher than the average bear?
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 321
Likes: 0
From: Buffalo, N.Y.
It seems like there are 3 "breeds" of muscle car people; the ricer crowd, the Mustang crowd, and the GM crowd. There's the "Super-Car" breed, but that's outta my league.
There's new rice and new Mustangs coming out every year. F-Bodies have been dead for 4 years now. There are F-Body cars runnin' around with nothing but bolt-ons and maybe a tune, kicking the s#it out of a LOT of newer rice-mobiles and Mustangs. When you have to run 15+ lbs of boost to keep up with a naturally aspirated, bolt-on LS1, that should tell you something. It tells me that buying a car with half an engine (4-banger) puts you at a disadvantage from the get-go.
I'm in the process of putting a forged stroker together. When I looked up the block casting number, I found out my '02 WS6 has an LS6 block. Once the car is back together, running, and tuned, I won't be afraid to tackle any naturally aspirated 'Stang. Any 4-banger rice-mobile that wants to give me a go, better be running enough boost.
Point is, if performance-built with carefully chosen ("matching"), hi-quality, aftermarket parts, and given a GOOD tune, an LS1/LS6 will more than compete with 95% of the street cars runnin' around out there today....including the ones manufactured AFTER '02.
There's new rice and new Mustangs coming out every year. F-Bodies have been dead for 4 years now. There are F-Body cars runnin' around with nothing but bolt-ons and maybe a tune, kicking the s#it out of a LOT of newer rice-mobiles and Mustangs. When you have to run 15+ lbs of boost to keep up with a naturally aspirated, bolt-on LS1, that should tell you something. It tells me that buying a car with half an engine (4-banger) puts you at a disadvantage from the get-go.
I'm in the process of putting a forged stroker together. When I looked up the block casting number, I found out my '02 WS6 has an LS6 block. Once the car is back together, running, and tuned, I won't be afraid to tackle any naturally aspirated 'Stang. Any 4-banger rice-mobile that wants to give me a go, better be running enough boost.
Point is, if performance-built with carefully chosen ("matching"), hi-quality, aftermarket parts, and given a GOOD tune, an LS1/LS6 will more than compete with 95% of the street cars runnin' around out there today....including the ones manufactured AFTER '02.
Originally Posted by Iron Sights
I think you're still seeling the LS1 short. 
Didn't Harlan run low 8s with the stock crank? He had to be making in excess of 1000rwhp.
Didn't Harlan run low 8s with the stock crank? He had to be making in excess of 1000rwhp.I also like the fact that everyone wrote the car off as an overweight pig, which didn't have much potential. Most of the automobile magazines (Road And Track, Car & Driver, etc..) don't feature any articles on the Supra in their modified contests (I see Corvettes, Evo's, etc..). I mean my understanding is that the car didn't sell well, and it wasn't until after it was euthanized that people actually began to explore the engines ability to handle boost. It was well manufactured IMO.
Anyone can go ahead and say that they all run 11's, but I saw one blow almost everyone away at Speedway (This is not for the person I quoted). The guy ran a 10 sec. pass at over 138mph, and that was primarily due to poor track prep.
I personally think alot of people on here sell the LS1 short with the rod bolt issue. To my knowledge, LT1's don't have anything special for rod bolts like the 01+ LS1's, and there are many OEM shortblocks out there being spun to 7000rpm with no issues. Eventually they'll spin a bearing or 2, but I've yet to hear of anyone throwing a rod. LS1's have been proven to have a stronger bottom end too.
As for Supras being the ultimate god in durability, that's only arguable. I have an issue of GM High Tech of a stock shortblock (with forged pistons) Grand National running 9's. Considering his trap speed which was near 150mph, that car probably has close to 1000hp.
Jason
As for Supras being the ultimate god in durability, that's only arguable. I have an issue of GM High Tech of a stock shortblock (with forged pistons) Grand National running 9's. Considering his trap speed which was near 150mph, that car probably has close to 1000hp.
Jason
The 6g72 engine is actually a very strong engine and has held up to high horsepower numbers on the stock bottom end. The problem with the 6g72 ( in the TT stealths not really as much of a problem in other applications ) is the randomness of problems such as spun bearings.
In the thread i didnt really stick up for the 6g72 but it really actually is a good engine, just a few underengineered things that plague it
In the thread i didnt really stick up for the 6g72 but it really actually is a good engine, just a few underengineered things that plague it
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 321
Likes: 0
From: Buffalo, N.Y.
"I personally think alot of people on here sell the LS1 short with the rod bolt issue. To my knowledge, LT1's don't have anything special for rod bolts like the 01+ LS1's, and there are many OEM shortblocks out there being spun to 7000rpm with no issues."
'92-'93 LT-1 rods were forged. From '94-'96, LT-1's gradually switched to powdered metal rods similar to the LSx-series, although the LT-1 rod's big-end CAN be re-conditioned/re-sized. I might be wrong, but I thought the the LT-1 rods used the old-style pressed-in bolt & nut arrangement, instead of the cap screw type rod bolt the LSx-series uses.
You bring up a good point I had never thought of before. I'll have to look into this one further.
'92-'93 LT-1 rods were forged. From '94-'96, LT-1's gradually switched to powdered metal rods similar to the LSx-series, although the LT-1 rod's big-end CAN be re-conditioned/re-sized. I might be wrong, but I thought the the LT-1 rods used the old-style pressed-in bolt & nut arrangement, instead of the cap screw type rod bolt the LSx-series uses.
You bring up a good point I had never thought of before. I'll have to look into this one further.
Eh I rev mine to 6800 on stock bottom end everytime I drive it (its a weekend toy) and all the miles are hard driven. I have upgraded valvetrain springs/pushrods to go with the cam but its been doing it for 5k so far and it doesnt burn any oil and nothing has failed
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Wanted to re-post as we found my blow-by problem; previously thought to have been a ring issue. The overheating actually caused piston failure on #5 & near failure @ #7. The top of both pistons nearest the valley were damaged. In February, the pistons were good, so I am quite sure that the heat caused the problem. The tune had a good A/F mix & was running stock timing @ the time. The overheat either caused a lean condition because of the heat or the piston could not take the heat. In either case, overheating caused problems w/ the LS1. The design of the piston does not have much thickness @ the top of the piston above the first ring, which was a surprize.
Am not faulting the engine, as I am the reason the problem occured. Just noting what happened to the engine as a result of overheating to the point of engine shut off. Am looking forward to finishing the LS6 block install.
Am not faulting the engine, as I am the reason the problem occured. Just noting what happened to the engine as a result of overheating to the point of engine shut off. Am looking forward to finishing the LS6 block install.
[QUOTE=bichin95redta
'92-'93 LT-1 rods were forged. From '94-'96, LT-1's gradually switched to powdered metal rods similar to the LSx-series, although the LT-1 rod's big-end CAN be re-conditioned/re-sized. I might be wrong, but I thought the the LT-1 rods used the old-style pressed-in bolt & nut arrangement, instead of the cap screw type rod bolt the LSx-series uses.
[/QUOTE]
Taken straight from Hib Halverson's "LS1 Millenium Motor" article. http://www.idavette.net/hib/ls1c.html
"The LS1 rod is also known as a "cracked rod" because the big-end is fracture split. During the finishing process, to split the big-end; a stress riser is cut into its inside diameter. The rod is stressed such that it fractures at that riser. The jagged surface left on both pieces precisely locates and locks the rod cap in place once the rod is assembled. For simple assembly and mass reduction, the LS1 rods use a 9 mm. capscrew rather than a rod bolt and nut to hold the big-end together."
Here's an LT1 write up: "350 - The original LT1 came with regular forged 350 rods, that were shot peened for localized hardness under the head of the bolt and nut. Powdered metal rods were phased in for the Corvette around 1994 and used in all of the LT1 engines by 1995. GM made the change because the powdered metal rods were cheaper to make and were much stronger than the GM high performance "pink" rods. In fact, they are supposed to be good for up to 450 hp. They are machined at the parting line so they can be reconditioned."
Here is the site this was taken from: http://www.automotiverebuilder.com/ar/ar99928.htm
Jason
'92-'93 LT-1 rods were forged. From '94-'96, LT-1's gradually switched to powdered metal rods similar to the LSx-series, although the LT-1 rod's big-end CAN be re-conditioned/re-sized. I might be wrong, but I thought the the LT-1 rods used the old-style pressed-in bolt & nut arrangement, instead of the cap screw type rod bolt the LSx-series uses.
[/QUOTE]
Taken straight from Hib Halverson's "LS1 Millenium Motor" article. http://www.idavette.net/hib/ls1c.html
"The LS1 rod is also known as a "cracked rod" because the big-end is fracture split. During the finishing process, to split the big-end; a stress riser is cut into its inside diameter. The rod is stressed such that it fractures at that riser. The jagged surface left on both pieces precisely locates and locks the rod cap in place once the rod is assembled. For simple assembly and mass reduction, the LS1 rods use a 9 mm. capscrew rather than a rod bolt and nut to hold the big-end together."
Here's an LT1 write up: "350 - The original LT1 came with regular forged 350 rods, that were shot peened for localized hardness under the head of the bolt and nut. Powdered metal rods were phased in for the Corvette around 1994 and used in all of the LT1 engines by 1995. GM made the change because the powdered metal rods were cheaper to make and were much stronger than the GM high performance "pink" rods. In fact, they are supposed to be good for up to 450 hp. They are machined at the parting line so they can be reconditioned."
Here is the site this was taken from: http://www.automotiverebuilder.com/ar/ar99928.htm
Jason
