Are "budget" heads worth it?
Are "budget" heads worth it? I'm trying to plan out my car's future, and I don't see myself spending big money for top of the line heads when I do my cam install. Are budget heads worth it, or should I have the stock ones ported / polished, or just do the cam and not even f**** with the heads? The car doesn't go to the track much; mostly just a weekend warrior street car.
Shoot man, get a set of heads from patriot here on the board, can't beat the #243's he's got for sale, CNC porting, stainless valves for like $1200, WELL worth it if you run an LS6 intake and a bigger cam.
My Bro is on a budget he is pretty much the same, His list is ths
Ls6 intake from me
stock ported 241 from me
ms4 cam and supporting Vt mods
he shooting for 420+
I got my heads ported and flowed for $400
included new valve guides and valves (stock)
Charged him 100 for the ls6 but you can find one 300+ if you dont have on allready
pp springs for $220
and timing gear ls2 $120
and gaskets total was 150 includeing head gaskets
and arp head studs $250
and Comp Pushrods $118
Total is $1644 the price of some heads considering you get the same prices he got.
Ls6 intake from me
stock ported 241 from me
ms4 cam and supporting Vt mods
he shooting for 420+
I got my heads ported and flowed for $400
included new valve guides and valves (stock)
Charged him 100 for the ls6 but you can find one 300+ if you dont have on allready
pp springs for $220
and timing gear ls2 $120
and gaskets total was 150 includeing head gaskets
and arp head studs $250
and Comp Pushrods $118
Total is $1644 the price of some heads considering you get the same prices he got.
Get the stock valve patriot, PRC or livernois ls6 heads.... They can be had for well under a grand. Use a thin gasket, the mr. gaskets .042's composits are great on a budget.
I have stock valved 241's that I milled and ported myself and they keep up pretty well with some bigger ticket heads, though a lot is in the tune...
Needless to say, budget heads will give you 85% of the performance, for half the price.
I have stock valved 241's that I milled and ported myself and they keep up pretty well with some bigger ticket heads, though a lot is in the tune...
Needless to say, budget heads will give you 85% of the performance, for half the price.
I think I am just slightly farther along in the planning process than you. I faced the same question. I called Patriot Performance and talked to Gunnar for about 20 minutes. Then I talked to a local guy who has a good reputation for building engines for the local circle track crowd. He was recommended as someone who could port my stock heads. We discussed my options, including prices and flow specs of the PP LS6 heads. He flat out told me that it would be in my best interest to just buy the LS6 heads. Now, to be fair, he also was very up front about the fact that he had never ported LS1 heads before. Right now, it looks like I am going to buy the PP LS6 heads with the stock valves. I think that $995 package is a terrific value. My setup probably will not require the heavier Patriot Gold dual springs. I am not building a max effort car. That being the case, Gunnar suggested I just sell the Patriots Golds, and go with a lighter spring. He even said they would ship the springs out in their packing box so I could resell them as new. I think this will work. Now, if I were going with a more aggressive cam with higher lift, I would probably stick with the Patriot Golds. That Gold kit seems like an awesome value.
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Originally Posted by bsf
I think I am just slightly farther along in the planning process than you. I faced the same question. I called Patriot Performance and talked to Gunnar for about 20 minutes. Then I talked to a local guy who has a good reputation for building engines for the local circle track crowd. He was recommended as someone who could port my stock heads. We discussed my options, including prices and flow specs of the PP LS6 heads. He flat out told me that it would be in my best interest to just buy the LS6 heads. Now, to be fair, he also was very up front about the fact that he had never ported LS1 heads before. Right now, it looks like I am going to buy the PP LS6 heads with the stock valves. I think that $995 package is a terrific value. My setup probably will not require the heavier Patriot Gold dual springs. I am not building a max effort car. That being the case, Gunnar suggested I just sell the Patriots Golds, and go with a lighter spring. He even said they would ship the springs out in their packing box so I could resell them as new. I think this will work. Now, if I were going with a more aggressive cam with higher lift, I would probably stick with the Patriot Golds. That Gold kit seems like an awesome value.
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Originally Posted by Predator
If you're using a smallish cam, keep the Patriot Golds and use some 1.8 rockers.
BSF-keep the Patriot Gold's and look into Thunder Racings TRak or wait until TSP release's the Torquer 3. Both of these cam's utilize the high lift LSK lobes and will need the dual springs. However, you will have great peak numbers as well as good power everywhere in the curve.
Marc 99'TA-Yes, budget heads are definately worth it. As a weekend warrior, I think a set of CNC LS6 heads from Patriot of TSP (or another sponsor) milled to 59cc, along with a .040 gasket and a cam in the same league as the MS3/4, TRex, G5X4, or similar would be a monster. You will need to flycut-however, if you get your compression in check with those heads and one of those cams I don't see why mid 430-40ish hp/410ish torque would be out of reach with the right bolt ons and tune.
Marc 99'TA-Yes, budget heads are definately worth it. As a weekend warrior, I think a set of CNC LS6 heads from Patriot of TSP (or another sponsor) milled to 59cc, along with a .040 gasket and a cam in the same league as the MS3/4, TRex, G5X4, or similar would be a monster. You will need to flycut-however, if you get your compression in check with those heads and one of those cams I don't see why mid 430-40ish hp/410ish torque would be out of reach with the right bolt ons and tune.
stock LS6 heads will flow what ported LS1 heads will flow. buy some 243s from patriot for under $400 (it will cost more than that to have stock ones ported) and then later when you want you can have yours ported or use them as a core
Originally Posted by Cop Car
stock LS6 heads will flow what ported LS1 heads will flow. buy some 243s from patriot for under $400 (it will cost more than that to have stock ones ported) and then later when you want you can have yours ported or use them as a core
Notice I use the verb "think", as opposed to "know". Maybe someone more knowledgeable will chime in.
Originally Posted by Cop Car
stock LS6 heads will flow what ported LS1 heads will flow. buy some 243s from patriot for under $400 (it will cost more than that to have stock ones ported) and then later when you want you can have yours ported or use them as a core
Checkout some of the results from the Precision Race Components Stage 1 LS6 heads. I think you'll find for a "budget head" they will perform on par with just about any cylinder head option available! We recently had a h/c test for GM high tech performance & the street ls6 stg1 ls6 heads combined with a ms4 made over 550flywheel horsepower! Also run a search for PRC ls6, there's several guys that recently posted their independent flow data & dyno graphs from these heads. The Precsion Race Components LS6 heads get complete cnc porting & complete cnc valve job that rivals cylinder heads that cost over double the price!
The PRC street LS6 heads also recently went over 315cfm when flow tested @ the School of Automotive Machinist!
It's results like these that seperate the Precision Race Components LS6 heads from the other bang for the buck options!!
The PRC street LS6 heads also recently went over 315cfm when flow tested @ the School of Automotive Machinist!
It's results like these that seperate the Precision Race Components LS6 heads from the other bang for the buck options!!
__________________
Jason
Co-Owner, Texas Speed & Performance, Ltd.
2005 Twin Turbo C6
404cid Stroker, 67mm Twins
994rwhp/902lb ft @ 22 psi (mustang dyno) www.Texas-Speed.com
Jason
Co-Owner, Texas Speed & Performance, Ltd.
2005 Twin Turbo C6
404cid Stroker, 67mm Twins
994rwhp/902lb ft @ 22 psi (mustang dyno) www.Texas-Speed.com
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthrea...highlight=flow
Dyno /\
https://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamometer-results-comparisons/544131-my-torquer2-prc-ls6-budget-heads-fast-90-90-dyno-s.html
Dyno /\
https://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamometer-results-comparisons/539900-480rwhp-magic-stick-4-camshaft-prc-stage-2-5-ls6-fast-90-resullts.html
Dyno/\
I'll try to track down the data on the flow asap!!
Dyno /\
https://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamometer-results-comparisons/544131-my-torquer2-prc-ls6-budget-heads-fast-90-90-dyno-s.html
Dyno /\
https://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamometer-results-comparisons/539900-480rwhp-magic-stick-4-camshaft-prc-stage-2-5-ls6-fast-90-resullts.html
Dyno/\
I'll try to track down the data on the flow asap!!
__________________
Jason
Co-Owner, Texas Speed & Performance, Ltd.
2005 Twin Turbo C6
404cid Stroker, 67mm Twins
994rwhp/902lb ft @ 22 psi (mustang dyno) www.Texas-Speed.com
Jason
Co-Owner, Texas Speed & Performance, Ltd.
2005 Twin Turbo C6
404cid Stroker, 67mm Twins
994rwhp/902lb ft @ 22 psi (mustang dyno) www.Texas-Speed.com