A Cam of a different degree
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On The Tree
Joined: May 2006
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A Cam of a different degree I had a thread not long ago about a cam I installed on an 01 C5 coupe, it was a 228/232 588/595 on a 110+1 LSA. https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthrea...ight=228%2F232 I was wanting to improve my low and midrange with this cam but my power wasn't starting untill 4500 rpm's and I actually had less power than I did with just headers until I hit 4500. It was to be installed on a 109 ICL, but Patrick G thought it might have been on a 112 or so. It was installed dot to dot, but Patrick told me they could be as much as 3 or 4 degrees off. Not happy with the turnout, I decided to get the cam degreed. Worst part was I was going to have to buy an adjustable timing chain and pay the same labor cost that the install was. After getting it degreed and tuned again I'm very happy with the results. Peak hp was down a little over 4 but peak tq was improved by almost 24, with power under the curve improved all the way across. Attached is the dyno sheet showing the difference. Looks much better now don't you think???
On The Tree
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Always degree your cams in.
Never trust the marks.
The cam core company put's the dowel pin in and roughs-out the core before the cam company gets it. The pin is not always in the right place. The cam core company has to locate and grind the lobes in line with the roughed-in lobes. We can adjust it a couple of degrees, but that's about it.
In most cases the cam is fine, but not always.
Sometimes the dowel pin in the cam, or the timing set gears can be off.
I've even seen the keyway on the crank in the wrong place.
Always degree your cams in.
Never trust the marks.
The cam core company put's the dowel pin in and roughs-out the core before the cam company gets it. The pin is not always in the right place. The cam core company has to locate and grind the lobes in line with the roughed-in lobes. We can adjust it a couple of degrees, but that's about it.
In most cases the cam is fine, but not always.
Sometimes the dowel pin in the cam, or the timing set gears can be off.
I've even seen the keyway on the crank in the wrong place.
Always degree your cams in.
If the grinding machine locates the cam position based soley on the dowel, how can it be off? If the pin was off, the rough lobes would be off angle and when they ground the profile, it would break the surface of the rough core, rendering the cam obviously unusable. I would imagine any variance to be soley in the grinding machine's tolerances. (Not accounting ofr timing set play.)
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Thread Starter
On The Tree
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Originally Posted by JL ws-6
that probably drives a ton better then before I'd think
Originally Posted by gomer
Could you tell any difference in the idle between now and when it was installed advanced too far?
Originally Posted by GuitsBoy
How far off was it on the first istall?
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Verdad Gallardo On The Tree
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Originally Posted by GuitsBoy
If the grinding machine locates the cam position based soley on the dowel,...
We locate off the "Roughed-in" #1 exhaust lobe.
The cam cores only come on a few different lobe centers.(114+4, 109+0, 112+0, 110+1).
If you want to grind a cam on a 112+4, you start with a core that is roughed at 114+4. You locate off the #1 exhaust lobe and then offset it +1 degree. That way you are taking off equal amounts of material from the intake and the exhaust lobes, and you keep the +4 degree advance.
Looks MUCH better. And just so you feel better, your original graph was really not as high as you thought. There's a 3-4 hp spike at the end...so in reality, you lost no hp, but gained it all under the curve. The graph looks just like it should.
Thank you for actually checking the cam timing. Many people would have pulled out a perfectly good cam and blamed the sub-par performance on the specs. Good job!
Thank you for actually checking the cam timing. Many people would have pulled out a perfectly good cam and blamed the sub-par performance on the specs. Good job!
__________________
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
Originally Posted by CamKing
Always degree your cams in.
Never trust the marks.
The cam core company put's the dowel pin in and roughs-out the core before the cam company gets it. The pin is not always in the right place. The cam core company has to locate and grind the lobes in line with the roughed-in lobes. We can adjust it a couple of degrees, but that's about it.
In most cases the cam is fine, but not always.
Sometimes the dowel pin in the cam, or the timing set gears can be off.
I've even seen the keyway on the crank in the wrong place.
Always degree your cams in.
Never trust the marks.
The cam core company put's the dowel pin in and roughs-out the core before the cam company gets it. The pin is not always in the right place. The cam core company has to locate and grind the lobes in line with the roughed-in lobes. We can adjust it a couple of degrees, but that's about it.
In most cases the cam is fine, but not always.
Sometimes the dowel pin in the cam, or the timing set gears can be off.
I've even seen the keyway on the crank in the wrong place.
Always degree your cams in.
YES!!! I dont think that is stressed enough around here with all the cam installs I see going on!!!
Awsome gains under the curve. I've got the same cam only with an LSK lobe on the intake side sitting next to me waiting to go in..(TSP Heads SHOULD be here soon i hope) Kinda makes me wonder if i should fork over a few extra bucks and get an adjustable cam gear or just put it in dot to dot...
BTW- what are your other mods??
BTW- what are your other mods??
Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 108
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Originally Posted by Patrick G
Looks MUCH better. And just so you feel better, your original graph was really not as high as you thought. There's a 3-4 hp spike at the end...so in reality, you lost no hp, but gained it all under the curve. The graph looks just like it should.
Thank you for actually checking the cam timing. Many people would have pulled out a perfectly good cam and blamed the sub-par performance on the specs. Good job!
Thank you for actually checking the cam timing. Many people would have pulled out a perfectly good cam and blamed the sub-par performance on the specs. Good job!
Thanks, my traction problems just keep getting worse.
I now know I would have any cam degreed, why take the chance with dot to dot. Do it right the first time. Thanks for all your help. Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 108
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Originally Posted by Mssingkid
Awsome gains under the curve. I've got the same cam only with an LSK lobe on the intake side sitting next to me waiting to go in..(TSP Heads SHOULD be here soon i hope) Kinda makes me wonder if i should fork over a few extra bucks and get an adjustable cam gear or just put it in dot to dot...
BTW- what are your other mods??
BTW- what are your other mods??
My mods; Ghl bullets exhaust, LGM longtube headers, Shaner ported TB, Halltech Stinger (similar to Blackwing) 4:10's.
Teching In
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 36
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From: Colorado
103??? dyno numbers looks like it was retarded more like 113 or so. If this is a stock piston/stock short block, this cam would not allowed the intake valve to clear the piston with the intake in at 103 and if it could clear, the power would have fell off real early like 5500-5800. When a cam is retarded a lot, the motor acts like it is missing a bunch of compression which yours did. Well, atleast you got it right with out bending any valves, that is the most important thing.
