I know I should not let these guys get to me I just can not stand it. They also make remarks about my exhaust(check the sig) They say "you dont even have true duals and laugh at me" they are so stupid. One guy keeps talking about his 68 bird with 400 in it I keep telling him to bring it on Ill race you anyday I have worked with this guy for about 3 years and have not seen it once.

 

I voted for LSx...but old school can still get it done.

http://www.highperformancepontiac.co...ul_pontiac_v8/

 

IMO on these 3 scenerios:

daily driver that is driven everyday....hands down LS based engines kick ***. injection, heads, coil on every cyl. state of the art technology.

street/strip car. LS based engine is still probably first in this category since there is several LS based cars driving to the track and are realisticly mid 10 sec cars.

all out drag car: big block chevrolet hands down. theres no replacement for displacement. and good aftermarket heads will out do the LS based heads on air flow. i mean why wouldnt they, possible 2.30 intake valve and 355cfm runner not ported. example. nhra pro stock, 6.50's in the 1/4 at 206 with a naturally aspirated 500ci big block with 2 dominators in a car wieghing 2500lbs. but also look at true 10.5 cars. majority are small blocks with turbos or spray and are nothing to laugh at.

now to sum all this up, no die hard chevrolet fan should deny performance from any gm engine, rather its LS based or a 3.8L turbo v6 or 1969 ZL1 427. it shouldnt matter what it is, just so its in a rear wheel drive vehicle.

 

i fail to see how a two thousand dollar CNC ported aftermarket head can close the gap when its beat by a six hundred dollar unported factory head... or if you want, six hundred fifty dollar CNC ported factory heads.

 

what unported factory heads are you talking about? stock LS6 heads dont flow 300 cfm at 28" with stock valves.

 

L92/L76, or the heads coming out over the next 3 years (just watch )


and if you dont want to discuss thoes heads.. fine. my point remains valid with any of the budget ported LS1 heads....

 

show me a stock old school TA or camaro that can beat a StockLS1 TA or camaro. you cant!!!! the LSX is the ****.

 

I've always been a bit of an old school biased person with cars. I would also venture to guess that most of the true domestic V8 guys are too because of the simplicity of the design. But GM has stuck to its roots with the KISS rule (Keep It Simple Stupid) with the LS1 family. It's still a pushrod design that has already become very cheap to build, but it has also demonstrated that it can take on the best from Europe and Japan in endurance racing.

The fact of the matter is that all of what the "old school" guys say you need to build reliable power, the LS1 has it in spades. Traits such as 6 bolt mains, 15 degree heads with big valves, and a big bore are what the LS1 has, some of which you'd have to spend thousands to get on a Gen I or II. With loose piston/wall clearances, many LS1's even have that piston slap associated with old school big blocks with forged pistons. And with packages out there to convert over to a carb, these "old school" guys have no room to talk other then having a distributor.

Now if you want to talk about the DOHC 4.6 Ford motors, have at it.

Jason

 

well put

 

I am in the same boat where I work. There are alot of the old school guys that talk ****. One time one of them was bragging about this Monte Carlo that he built that ran 8.14 or so in the 1/8th. I laughed my *** off and told him my bolt-on LS1 with a 6 speed, and DRs was running 7.90s, getting 25+ mpg, I DRIVE it to the track, have leather power seats, power windows, A/C, damn, where should I stop. I pitty their ignorance

 

tell them you get 25+mpg on the freeway and that you get better city mpg than they do on the highway. your ported heads will flow more than most big block heads, you can run over 11.1 cr on pump gas and high hp lsx motors are by far much easier to drive everyday than old school small blocks and you have six bolt mains and a crank good to at least 800+ hp from the factory. another thing to tell them is your car is good for lower 13 second 1/4 mile right off the dealers lot and no old school muscle car witha small block ever did that.
besides fuel injection and being made of aluminum is their really that big of a difference between the two physically

 

I was really into traditional Pontiacs (see sig) - a mostly stock street musclecar thing, not big into racing or anything like that. I got my LS1 for a daily driver with no intentions of modding it - just like I had used my LT1 Formula before. But it didn't take me long to realize the power potential of a stock LS1 was way beyond anything I'd experienced before. It takes a lot to get those old school cars into the 12's. With the LS1, it was lid, catback, converter and tires and I was there. The old musclecars are great for cruising and shows. But going fast comes so much easier in an LS1 f-bod.

 

I say it depends on the car and what you want to do. I own a 1971 corvette and my 2001 Z06. I like the ls engine for my daily drive that makes great power and gets awesome fuel economy. I was considering changing my 71 to new tech, but think it will be best old school. The old car is just that an older car. I want to keep it more original to the times, with the exception of the radio. You can make decent power with both power plants. I know before my 71 was flooded in Katrina I could get 20 mpg on interstate so both can get good fuel economy.

 

I have this same issue, but my problem is that all the guys that give me crap are in my car club......and the all run 9's or lower. LOL I guess I have to still prove myself

 

everyone so far seems to have good points.

to me it is this... there are plenty of cam only LS1s that...
...put down 400+ rwhp
...drive 50+ miles to work every day
...run low 12s in the 1/4
...get 28-30 MPG
...have a smooth riding car
...have cold A/C
...have a comfortable interrior
...have a nice sounding audio system
...and whip plenty of @$$ on the weekends

 

heres what i do.

my car is a 3rdgen camaro convertible. the outside doesnt look like anything special.

so when people start asking me questions, i answer them honestly.

they may ask "alum heads?"... i respond " alum heads and a alum block".
they may ask "350?"... i respond "yea."
they may ask "4 bolt main?"... i respond "six bolt. its like a 4 bolt main, except the alum block has a skirt that goes down further so that you can put two small bolts in sideways."
"whats redline?" ... "i have the limiter set at 6400.. (this sometimes gets some wide eyed looks)"
"compression?"... "10.2-10.5 depending on how you get it.. but it runs on 91 pumpgas just fine...."
and so on and so on.

so they learn i have a windage tray.. i run a cast alum oil pan... i have a aggressive lobe hyd roller... i make the car seem like it has race parts on it because....... if this was a SBC, they WOULD be race parts.


usually when i open my hood after a conversation like that, even a old school guy appreciates what i have..

 

If all your friends run 9's with old-tech, they're hardly street cars.

 

I was all about the old muscle. I have an 85 monte ss did a lot of work to it. 350 swap heads cam intake manifold full true dual exhaust, hooker super comp headers 10.5 : 1 compresion 750 cfm carb, race built 200 4r tranny 3k stall and 3.73 posi. I thought i had the baddest ride. That is until i raced my friends stock 98 ta. Thought i would take him easy and I lost by a couple lengths on a friendly run. My car is barely streetalbe, runs hot, rough idle, shitty ride and about 10 mpg. His car rides nice, gets about 30 mpg highway and is a couple bolt on's from twelves. It was at that moment after the race I knew i was going LSX. There is no comparison, dd Lsx, street/strip Lsx, all out track car id say big cube big block.

 

now that just seems like theres something wrong... its possiibly a 496 which, for 14k, should be making WAY more than <300hp..

 

Not trying to be a jerk or anything, but with that compression, mild cam (Comp XE grind) that would barely lope, and all the accompanying bolt ons, that 350 would be at 400hp and enable you to beat a stock LS1 (thought not by much). I suspect you still have smog heads on it. If so, get some Vortecs. They're extremely cheap nowdays, and will support 450hp out of the box with a streetable cam.

Jason