The Dragon

iTrader: (6)

It's amazing how one simple little question can cause such a debate and expose a variety of opinion and, in some cases, factual evidence (meager that it may be <img src="images/icons/wink.gif" border="0"> )

http://www.ls1.com/ls1forum/Forum17/HTML/009739.html

and

http://www.hoodscoop.com/cgi-bin/ult...c&f=2&t=004054

al'Lan Mandragoran is me BTW <img src="images/icons/cool.gif" border="0">

If you have any engineering knowledge about the LS1, please add your thoughts and/or opinions.

I'm still looking for a final answer <img src="images/icons/confused.gif" border="0"> <img src="images/icons/grin.gif" border="0">

Visceral

iTrader: (1)

Not with a False Dragon. Where's the Red Ajah when you need em?

;-)

The Dragon

iTrader: (6)

[quote]Originally posted by Visceral:
<strong>Not with a False Dragon. Where's the Red Ajah when you need em?

;-)</strong><hr></blockquote>

The tower fell to Egwene, remember? <img src="images/icons/wink.gif" border="0">

I just wish Lan was with somebody other than that stick-up-the-butt PRUDE Nynaeve <img src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0"> <img src="images/icons/grin.gif" border="0">

The Dragon

iTrader: (6)

[quote]Originally posted by Visceral:
<strong>Not with a False Dragon. Where's the Red Ajah when you need em?

;-)</strong><hr></blockquote>

The tower fell to Egwene, remember? <img src="images/icons/wink.gif" border="0"> <img src="graemlins/fluffy.gif" border="0" alt="[Fluffy]" />

I just wish Lan was with somebody other than that stick-up-the-butt PRUDE Nynaeve <img src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0"> <img src="images/icons/grin.gif" border="0">

[ November 29, 2001: Message edited by: The Dragon ]</p>

Visceral

iTrader: (1)

Hold up there pardner ;-)

I read the series between bottles of Chainti on a recent long trip to Tuscany.
I enjoyed 1-8 quite a bit, but I dont know if I hold them to epic levels...
The guy has a great imagination, and mastery of details and storytelling, and a really shi**y writing style. ;-)

*great* in league with a full bottle of Brunello di Montalcino, some really good Pecorino Toscano, and beautiful women playing in a big pool.

But I can tell you are a err.... fan :-)

chris

Crazyquik

Keep the motor hot and the intake charge cold and you'll always make more power. The rings seal better, you get better combustion, the oil is thinner, etc etc. This is one reason why you dont see 2 liter V12s, each pistons wouldn't retain enough heat per cylinder.

When stuff combusts, the heat goes to 3 places. Some goes right out the exhuast, some goes into the block/cooling system, and some pushes the piston down. This is the reason iron block motors make more hp than alum blocks all other things being held constant, the alum tranfers heat faster so there is less in the cylinder. If you keep more heat in the cylinder instead of going into the block, you have more pushing down on the pistons. Coated pistons help hold heat in. Cars would have coated cylinder walls but the rings would scrape it away.

Of course aluminium heads are great because they lose heat and help fight detonation, as well as being much easier to reshape the ports of and they weigh a good deal less. So you walk a fine line holding heat in the combustion chamber to push the pistons down more and not detonating. Exhaust gas temperatures are a good way to measure this stuff. Of course quench and swirl play into this too. This all works hand in hand with the compression ratio, because a higher compression ratio creates more heat.

Thermal loss does lead to less hp. I know MOPAR has been looking into coating entire cylinders to reduce loss into the water jackets.

"Heat equals horsepower" - Smokey Yunick

Just my two pennies.

J.

[ November 29, 2001: Message edited by: Crazyquik ]</p>

TA_2001

Someone said 175 thermostat may be better
than the stock 190...
I cant say I have ever seen one of those..
Terry

The Dragon

iTrader: (6)

[quote]Originally posted by Visceral:
<strong>Hold up there pardner ;-)

I read the series between bottles of Chainti on a recent long trip to Tuscany.
I enjoyed 1-8 quite a bit, but I dont know if I hold them to epic levels...
The guy has a great imagination, and mastery of details and storytelling, and a really shi**y writing style. ;-)

*great* in league with a full bottle of Brunello di Montalcino, some really good Pecorino Toscano, and beautiful women playing in a big pool.

But I can tell you are a err.... fan :-)

chris</strong><hr></blockquote>

Not too many people can beat Weiss & Hickman I'm afraid <img src="images/icons/blush.gif" border="0"> <img src="images/icons/smile.gif" border="0">

Eddings (David, NOT Leigh <img src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0"> ), Brooks ofcourse, Rawn, McCaffrey . . . these are authors my friend <img src="images/icons/grin.gif" border="0">

LOVE 'em All <img src="images/icons/smile.gif" border="0">

The Dragon

iTrader: (6)

[quote]Originally posted by Crazyquik:
<strong>Keep the motor hot and the intake charge cold and you'll always make more power. The rings seal better, you get better combustion, the oil is thinner, etc etc. This is one reason why you dont see 2 liter V12s, each pistons wouldn't retain enough heat per cylinder.

When stuff combusts, the heat goes to 3 places. Some goes right out the exhuast, some goes into the block/cooling system, and some pushes the piston down. This is the reason iron block motors make more hp than alum blocks all other things being held constant, the alum tranfers heat faster so less in the cylinder. Coated pistons help hold heat in. Cars would have coated cylinder walls but the rings would scrape it away. Of course aluminium heads are great because they lose heat and help fight detonation. So you walk a fine line holding heat in the combustion chamber and not detonating. Exhaust gas temperatures are a good way to measure this stuff. Of course quench and swirl play into this too.

Thermal loss does create less hp. I know MOPAR has been looking into coating entire cylinders to reduce loss into the water jackets.

"Heat equals horsepower" - Smokey Yunick

Just my two pennies.

J.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Now this has to be the best, most detailed, yet laments terms explanation to date!!! Thank You!!!

<img src="images/icons/grin.gif" border="0">
<img src="graemlins/fluffy.gif" border="0" alt="[Fluffy]" />

TA_2001

Has anybody have any other hard data.. here is
one that I found..
A shim of .101 would reduce the stock stat from 194 degrees to 180 degrees

any more ??

looking for 175
Terry

Crazyquik

Yeah I just have a publik edukatshun, so I'm not allowed to use engineering terms <img src="images/icons/grin.gif" border="0">

Of course it can be argued that will an iron block car win in a race vs an alum block. The iron will make more power, but will weigh 75+ lbs more depending on if its a SBC, BBC, Hemi, LS1, Ford, etc. In drag racing its a 75-150 lbs at a very bad place. In oval track or road racing the question is up in the air really.

Its said that for an aluminium block engine to maintain the same thermal effieceny of an ironblock will need 1 more point of compression. More heat in the holes (so to speak) reduces emissions and lightes the cats sooner (not that I care).

Edit - In my earlier post when I mentioned Mopar coating cylinders, that is in sprint car motors.

J.

[ November 29, 2001: Message edited by: Crazyquik ]</p>

Doug Tschantz

From what I've seen and heard 178 degrees seems to be the magic number. Go to Breathless Performance .com it can be of some more help with this issue....


Doug
00 Pontiac

branz 28

Honestly, the way crazyquik explained it was how i have always accepted the thermostat debate. One guy on another board even went as far as to prove this. I am not for sure his conditions were fair but providing his twin intercooled supercharger (not sure which one) and the weather at 70* He swapped a 160, 180 and 195 thermo. His 60ft's were close, and so were the conditions but it was clearly stated that 195 gave him the best performance. Now for a N/A setup i have now idea how this would work out. But he gained anywhere from one tenth to two tenths don't remember which. And to prove it was a consistent time he had multiple timeslips on each thermostat.

ARTY99z

In the past on the old sight(LS1.com)someone posted that after numerous dynos with different cars 180temp was the best for horsepower.

The Dragon

iTrader: (6)

Thanks guys! From what I've read, the 160 thermo should have the car hovering around the 175-190 mark depending on weather temp. <img src="images/icons/cool.gif" border="0">