EWP dyno results ~~
12-09-2001, 07:22 PM
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EWP dyno results ~~ I had a great day at MMS's dyno day today! There were about 25 cars there, with parts from various sponsors. Man the B1 cam idles rough! <img src="images/icons/wink.gif" border="0"> <img src="images/icons/wink.gif" border="0"> <img src="images/icons/wink.gif" border="0"> I'm looking forward to these events more often. <img src="images/icons/wink.gif" border="0">
Getting to my results: Before I start I just wanted to point out that my results are not
reflective of other manufactures water pumps, and do not reflect what other pumps will or will not do.
My mods: MMS stage 2x heads (11.2:1), 224v3.1 cam, TTS headers, cutouts, ST3800 (no lockup switch, 3.23s), UD pulley, MMS TB, Burger EWP, 91 pump gas. Today's results were 407rwhp, 425rwtq, with a 13.5-14:1 AF (bit lean).
The bottom line for me was up to 5000rpm the EWP was worth nothing, over 5000rpm it was worth a solid 4-5rwhp. The torque gain was similar. I feel this gain reflects the loss of stock water pump drag against the motor. In other words, the fact that the engine is no longer spinning the water pump seems to be worth 4-5rwhp from 5000rpm up to 6600rpm.
The other aspect of this modification is the "reverse cooling" effect. Unfortunately I'm only running 24-25 degrees of timing on my setup, so I'm not optimized for the pump. It's possible with another 4-5 degrees of timing I'll pick up another 5rwhp (I doubt it though).
Getting to my results: Before I start I just wanted to point out that my results are not
reflective of other manufactures water pumps, and do not reflect what other pumps will or will not do.
My mods: MMS stage 2x heads (11.2:1), 224v3.1 cam, TTS headers, cutouts, ST3800 (no lockup switch, 3.23s), UD pulley, MMS TB, Burger EWP, 91 pump gas. Today's results were 407rwhp, 425rwtq, with a 13.5-14:1 AF (bit lean).
The bottom line for me was up to 5000rpm the EWP was worth nothing, over 5000rpm it was worth a solid 4-5rwhp. The torque gain was similar. I feel this gain reflects the loss of stock water pump drag against the motor. In other words, the fact that the engine is no longer spinning the water pump seems to be worth 4-5rwhp from 5000rpm up to 6600rpm.
The other aspect of this modification is the "reverse cooling" effect. Unfortunately I'm only running 24-25 degrees of timing on my setup, so I'm not optimized for the pump. It's possible with another 4-5 degrees of timing I'll pick up another 5rwhp (I doubt it though).
12-09-2001, 08:02 PM
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Re: EWP dyno results ~~ Thanks for the good results.
Alot of people throw around some pretty nutty sounding numbers for the gains of a ELectric WP. Thankfully you have shown *a* reality.
Alot of us are at point where the next few HP cost a whole lot of $$$. Now the value proposition (ROI) will be far more predictable.
It may not be possibel for many of us to advance our ignitions for any more power anyways. Its good to seperate the benefits. Thanks...
chris
Alot of people throw around some pretty nutty sounding numbers for the gains of a ELectric WP. Thankfully you have shown *a* reality.
Alot of us are at point where the next few HP cost a whole lot of $$$. Now the value proposition (ROI) will be far more predictable.
It may not be possibel for many of us to advance our ignitions for any more power anyways. Its good to seperate the benefits. Thanks...
chris
12-09-2001, 08:33 PM
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Re: EWP dyno results ~~ [quote]Originally posted by Joe Prince:
<strong>You are going to have nothing but problems with the way you set it up, do a real easy test, hold the car at 100 MPH for 1 minuite and tell me what happens. I already lived through all that BS 5 months ago, you will find out real quick, keep a sharp eye on the Temp gauge the whole time or you won't be able to turn the car off fast enough. What going to happen is it's going to run very cool for a while (bad for the rings and makes the motor run rich) then with increased speed all the sudden it's going to overheat.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Terry have you done this to see if your mod will hold up to a long run? Your mod sounds feasible if it will pass this simple test. Let us know.
Tim
<strong>You are going to have nothing but problems with the way you set it up, do a real easy test, hold the car at 100 MPH for 1 minuite and tell me what happens. I already lived through all that BS 5 months ago, you will find out real quick, keep a sharp eye on the Temp gauge the whole time or you won't be able to turn the car off fast enough. What going to happen is it's going to run very cool for a while (bad for the rings and makes the motor run rich) then with increased speed all the sudden it's going to overheat.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Terry have you done this to see if your mod will hold up to a long run? Your mod sounds feasible if it will pass this simple test. Let us know.
Tim
12-09-2001, 09:45 PM
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Re: EWP dyno results ~~ I'm sorry I won't be driving at 100mph for any length of time. I drive around the highway at 75-80mph, and do a lot of 1/4 mile passes. The temperature didn't budge on the dyno at all, and just for fun I put 5-6 miles on the car doing 80mph in 3rd gear (around 3100rpm). The pump appears to cool fine. <img src="images/icons/wink.gif" border="0">
12-09-2001, 09:54 PM
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Re: EWP dyno results ~~ I've been tempted to try a Meziere pump on my car, and 5hp would be worth it to me. Like Visceral said, it's getting really hard to come by 5hp nowadays.
What I've yet to figure out, is how I could possibly route the belt, without custom fabbing a tensioner to mount on or near the alternator. I have no power steering pump, and only the water pump and alternator are driven off the belt. In fact, the belt routing is the only reason I haven't switched to a Meziere pump.
Nothing wrong with your "inline" pump setup, but I'd prefer to avoid the clutter, and also lose the weight from the heavy factory waterpump.
Has anyone ever seen a Meziere pump on an LS1 with an alternator?
What I've yet to figure out, is how I could possibly route the belt, without custom fabbing a tensioner to mount on or near the alternator. I have no power steering pump, and only the water pump and alternator are driven off the belt. In fact, the belt routing is the only reason I haven't switched to a Meziere pump.
Nothing wrong with your "inline" pump setup, but I'd prefer to avoid the clutter, and also lose the weight from the heavy factory waterpump.
Has anyone ever seen a Meziere pump on an LS1 with an alternator?
12-09-2001, 10:04 PM
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Re: EWP dyno results ~~ George, the stock pump isn't all that heavy, but it is easy to relocate your alternator and run a short belt. The inline setup does add about 5# of weight to the nose.
Regarding the mezere, I believe its a standard cooling setup.
Regarding the mezere, I believe its a standard cooling setup.
12-10-2001, 01:12 PM
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Re: EWP dyno results ~~ [quote]Originally posted by Terry Burger:
<strong>George, the stock pump isn't all that heavy, but it is easy to relocate your alternator and run a short belt. The inline setup does add about 5# of weight to the nose.
Regarding the mezere, I believe its a standard cooling setup.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Where could the alternator be relocated to? Considering that some of the turbo kits require moving the alternator, I guess that's a "doable" option... Wonder if I'd have to fab up custom brackets or not. I do like the "out of sight" stock location of the alternator. With no AC or power steering, EGR, etc, the front of my engine looks pretty clean.
<strong>George, the stock pump isn't all that heavy, but it is easy to relocate your alternator and run a short belt. The inline setup does add about 5# of weight to the nose.
Regarding the mezere, I believe its a standard cooling setup.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Where could the alternator be relocated to? Considering that some of the turbo kits require moving the alternator, I guess that's a "doable" option... Wonder if I'd have to fab up custom brackets or not. I do like the "out of sight" stock location of the alternator. With no AC or power steering, EGR, etc, the front of my engine looks pretty clean.
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12-10-2001, 01:18 PM
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Re: EWP dyno results ~~ George, you will prob have to make your own bracket, with a 71 camaro style tensioner. Just poke around down there and I'm sure you can figure something out.
