Is this possible? Smart people needed...
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Is this possible? Smart people needed... Is it possible that you can move enough coolant through two 3/16" openings to adequately cool an engine?
Right now I'm running a 1ohm resistor inline with the EWP (slowed it down 20% or so), I have a 160 degree thermo in with a 3/16" hole drilled in it, and a bit of water can pass through the cylinder head cross over pipes (I have the hole restricted to 3/16" or so). The car STILL overcools on the highway (goes below 1st mark on gauge). How is this possible?!?!?!
Right now I'm running a 1ohm resistor inline with the EWP (slowed it down 20% or so), I have a 160 degree thermo in with a 3/16" hole drilled in it, and a bit of water can pass through the cylinder head cross over pipes (I have the hole restricted to 3/16" or so). The car STILL overcools on the highway (goes below 1st mark on gauge). How is this possible?!?!?!
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Re: Is this possible? Smart people needed... Nope I only have the guage to go by. I'd love to find an ATAP but I won't be able to get my hands on one for a few days. I know the engine is running cold because the heater stops working right when it happens. <img src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" border="0">
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Re: Is this possible? Smart people needed... I can heat the car up, I just want to know if its possible to overcool a car through 2 3/16" openings. The stock thermo has like a giant 1" opening on it.
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Re: Is this possible? Smart people needed... Why do you have a hole drilled into the 160 thermostat? That hole could be keeping the engine from reaching operating temperature. What electric waterpump are you using?
I would suggest installing a stock thermostat back into the car and see what happens.
[ December 12, 2001: Message edited by: 2quick4u ]</p>
I would suggest installing a stock thermostat back into the car and see what happens.
[ December 12, 2001: Message edited by: 2quick4u ]</p>
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Re: Is this possible? Smart people needed... A thermostat without a hole sometimes doesn't open and the car overheats. I believe this is due to the fact that the thermostat has to open against the pressure of the water pump (I'm reverse cooled). What's weird is the thermostat without a hole sometimes will open and run properly, but the car still overcools on the highway. With the hole drilled the thermostat opens all the time, but the car still runs too cool on the highway. I've swapped my thermo about 10 times and I'm trying to work towards a more long term solution. I just need to figure out why its overcooling. I guess I'll try to slow the pump down some more and see what effect that has on things. Ambient around here are only 70 right now. I'm running the Burger electric water pump BTW. <img src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" border="0">
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Re: Is this possible? Smart people needed... I might give that a shot too. I just wish I knew why it was overcooling! How many gal/min does it take to cool an engine like this pushing a car around at 80mph?
Re: Is this possible? Smart people needed... A few things:
#1, where are you measuring engine temperature? The location may need to be different if you are moving from normal to reverse flow cooling. Measuring the water being output by the heads in normal cooling will show very cool water if the flow is reversed.
#2, Cooling is not linear with flow. If the coolant is moving slower, it is able to gather mroe heat while in the engine and release more heat when its in the radiator. There *will* be some optimal speed, but the cooling function isnt linear with flow. I dont think a 3/16" hole would be enough necessarily to cool a car, but...
#3, With enough pressure, any amount of coolant can fit through a 3/16" hole ;-). It sounds like you really do need to reostat the voltage going to this pump so that you can run it more slowly when necessary.
besides, I aint smart. I jus' wuz raized rite.
Chris
[ December 12, 2001: Message edited by: Visceral ]</p>
#1, where are you measuring engine temperature? The location may need to be different if you are moving from normal to reverse flow cooling. Measuring the water being output by the heads in normal cooling will show very cool water if the flow is reversed.
#2, Cooling is not linear with flow. If the coolant is moving slower, it is able to gather mroe heat while in the engine and release more heat when its in the radiator. There *will* be some optimal speed, but the cooling function isnt linear with flow. I dont think a 3/16" hole would be enough necessarily to cool a car, but...
#3, With enough pressure, any amount of coolant can fit through a 3/16" hole ;-). It sounds like you really do need to reostat the voltage going to this pump so that you can run it more slowly when necessary.
besides, I aint smart. I jus' wuz raized rite.
Chris
[ December 12, 2001: Message edited by: Visceral ]</p>
Re: Is this possible? Smart people needed... Also, because you moved from normal to reverse cooling, the heater may be flowing coolant that is just coming from the radiator.
I really do think that you arent necessarily cooling the heck out of the engine, just reversing the order of operations. Im beginning to think the engine is much hotter than you think...
chris
I really do think that you arent necessarily cooling the heck out of the engine, just reversing the order of operations. Im beginning to think the engine is much hotter than you think...
chris
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Re: Is this possible? Smart people needed... With reverse cooling, I believe the 2 holes you have can suffice. The reverse cooling keeps the heads so cool to begin with that even those 2 small orifices are moving enough coolant to overcool with a 160 stat. I have seen 160 stats start to open as soon as 130 degrees so that may be the contributing factor.
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Re: Is this possible? Smart people needed... [quote]
I really do think that you arent necessarily cooling the heck out of the engine, just reversing the order of operations. Im beginning to think the engine is much hotter than you think...
<hr></blockquote>
I can tell how hot the engine is running by turning on the heater. When its nice and hot, the thermo is open and the heater blows hot air out. When the thermo is closed (engine temp < 160 degrees), the heater does not work. Don't worry I spent a lot of time mapping the coolant flow, I know how the setup should be working. The only possible explanation is that 2 3/16" holes are enough to cool the motor, but that explanation fails the DIMS test. <img src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" border="0">
It makes sense that the heads should show a cooler temp than the rest of the engine, but 30 degrees? I don't think so...
I'd love to check the water temp at the block, but I don't have ATAP. Hopefully soon.
I tried a 5w 0-5phm pot (biggest I could find), and the thing melted on me after 10 seconds. <img src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" border="0"> I'll throw another 1ohm-10w static resistor in the mix to see how things are going after work.
I really do think that you arent necessarily cooling the heck out of the engine, just reversing the order of operations. Im beginning to think the engine is much hotter than you think...
<hr></blockquote>
I can tell how hot the engine is running by turning on the heater. When its nice and hot, the thermo is open and the heater blows hot air out. When the thermo is closed (engine temp < 160 degrees), the heater does not work. Don't worry I spent a lot of time mapping the coolant flow, I know how the setup should be working. The only possible explanation is that 2 3/16" holes are enough to cool the motor, but that explanation fails the DIMS test. <img src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" border="0">
It makes sense that the heads should show a cooler temp than the rest of the engine, but 30 degrees? I don't think so...
I'd love to check the water temp at the block, but I don't have ATAP. Hopefully soon.
I tried a 5w 0-5phm pot (biggest I could find), and the thing melted on me after 10 seconds. <img src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" border="0"> I'll throw another 1ohm-10w static resistor in the mix to see how things are going after work.
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Re: Is this possible? Smart people needed... [quote]
With reverse cooling, I believe the 2 holes you have can suffice. The reverse cooling keeps the heads so cool to begin with that even those 2 small orifices are moving enough coolant to overcool with a 160 stat. I have seen 160 stats start to open as soon as 130 degrees so that may be the contributing factor.
<hr></blockquote>
Thats a good point, if the thermo is opening sooner than 160 it migth be compounding the problem. I will have to check it, thanks.
With reverse cooling, I believe the 2 holes you have can suffice. The reverse cooling keeps the heads so cool to begin with that even those 2 small orifices are moving enough coolant to overcool with a 160 stat. I have seen 160 stats start to open as soon as 130 degrees so that may be the contributing factor.
<hr></blockquote>
Thats a good point, if the thermo is opening sooner than 160 it migth be compounding the problem. I will have to check it, thanks.
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Re: Is this possible? Smart people needed... Hypertech 160 right now. I've trashed my extra stock thermos trying to make them work so it's all I have left. <img src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" border="0">
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Re: Is this possible? Smart people needed... Well, you did say you had it reversed right? The temp might just be reflecting the cold temps coming out of the radiator, since it flowing to the heads first. The temp sensor is right in front of the driver head.....the rest of the motor might be up to actual temp. BTW, why would you want the 160 stat? I have found they make better power around 200 degrees.
Chris
Chris
Re: Is this possible? Smart people needed... Have you sped up the EWP? the slower it moves thru the radiator, the more time it has to cool. if you speed it up the less time it spends in the radiator?
Just wondering?
Just wondering?
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Re: Is this possible? Smart people needed... [quote]
Well, you did say you had it reversed right? The temp might just be reflecting the cold temps coming out of the radiator, since it flowing to the heads first.
<hr></blockquote>
I've considered that, but as it stands right now the thermo never opens. I can only assume that is because the outlet temps of the block are not reaching 160 degrees, which appears to be the case looking at the temp gauge. Later today I'll slow the water pump down more and see what affect it has on the situation.
[quote]
BTW, why would you want the 160 stat? I have found they make better power around 200 degrees.
<hr></blockquote>
I've already ruined my stock stat so I'm using this because I have it. Once I have this setup the way I want, I'll be able to easily adjust the temp on the dyno and see what works best for me.
Well, you did say you had it reversed right? The temp might just be reflecting the cold temps coming out of the radiator, since it flowing to the heads first.
<hr></blockquote>
I've considered that, but as it stands right now the thermo never opens. I can only assume that is because the outlet temps of the block are not reaching 160 degrees, which appears to be the case looking at the temp gauge. Later today I'll slow the water pump down more and see what affect it has on the situation.
[quote]
BTW, why would you want the 160 stat? I have found they make better power around 200 degrees.
<hr></blockquote>
I've already ruined my stock stat so I'm using this because I have it. Once I have this setup the way I want, I'll be able to easily adjust the temp on the dyno and see what works best for me.
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Re: Is this possible? Smart people needed... [quote]
Have you sped up the EWP? the slower it moves thru the radiator, the more time it has to cool. if you speed it up the less time it spends in the radiator?
<hr></blockquote>
I'd rather slow it down than speed it up.
Have you sped up the EWP? the slower it moves thru the radiator, the more time it has to cool. if you speed it up the less time it spends in the radiator?
<hr></blockquote>
I'd rather slow it down than speed it up.