Cam choice help needed (long)
Cam choice help needed (long) Yes I know this is post #172364 on cam choices, but I need some help and none of the other posts help. My dilemma is that every sponser wants lift over .550. I don't like that. I talked to one shop putting out some great numbers and they don't go over .510 lift. <img src="graemlins/gr_hail.gif" border="0" alt="[hail]" /> So I'm a little confused. A few people have said lift= power but the other shop has proven that wrong. Here's what I want in a cam.
I don't care about the idle. I want it chaotic, lumpy, absolutly disgusting. I don't care if it stalls out at idle with the A/C turned on. <img src="graemlins/gr_devil.gif" border="0" alt="[devil]" /> Oh, BTW, I have an M6. I want power from 3k and up, but I don't want to rev past 6400. I'd like peak HP around 6k. I want somewhat close hp to tq numbers. I don't want for example, 400hp and 360tq.
I don't want to go over .550 lift. Around .530 if possible. I don't want to deal with spring problems, and I really don't ever want to have to change them. I also don't want to spend over 600 bucks on the basic cam and valvetrain stuff. If I have to go 700, fine. I'd just rather not. <img src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" border="0">
I'd prefer the cam to be on a 112lsa, just for idle reasons. I also like some midrange power. My mods are in my sig. I plan on doing an LS6 intake soon so you cann add that. I plan on a pulley, but don't know if I'll ever get around to it. Heads might be ported at some point, but not neccesarily. So any ideas guys? I do appriciate the help. TIA
Jason <img src="graemlins/fluffy.gif" border="0" alt="[Fluffy]" />
I don't care about the idle. I want it chaotic, lumpy, absolutly disgusting. I don't care if it stalls out at idle with the A/C turned on. <img src="graemlins/gr_devil.gif" border="0" alt="[devil]" /> Oh, BTW, I have an M6. I want power from 3k and up, but I don't want to rev past 6400. I'd like peak HP around 6k. I want somewhat close hp to tq numbers. I don't want for example, 400hp and 360tq.
I don't want to go over .550 lift. Around .530 if possible. I don't want to deal with spring problems, and I really don't ever want to have to change them. I also don't want to spend over 600 bucks on the basic cam and valvetrain stuff. If I have to go 700, fine. I'd just rather not. <img src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" border="0">
I'd prefer the cam to be on a 112lsa, just for idle reasons. I also like some midrange power. My mods are in my sig. I plan on doing an LS6 intake soon so you cann add that. I plan on a pulley, but don't know if I'll ever get around to it. Heads might be ported at some point, but not neccesarily. So any ideas guys? I do appriciate the help. TIA
Jason <img src="graemlins/fluffy.gif" border="0" alt="[Fluffy]" />
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From: Henderson, NV
Re: Cam choice help needed (long) might want to talk to BIGBOS. Hes a friend i talk to who has the .563/.563 you dont want. Though despite this he sports a 112 LSA. In in sig i think he has the equal power you want. I believe 360 hp 360tq.......correct me here BOS
Re: Cam choice help needed (long) R U A LS1- Thanks for the quick response. To clear a few things up, I'd really like to have more than 360,360. I just used some numbers as an example. And that lift as you said.. WAY TOO HIGH. For me anyway. I see that kind of lift is making awesome power, but I don't need or want the financial headaches that I believe will occur with that kind of lift.
Jason
Jason
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 712
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From: Dallas,Texas
Re: Cam choice help needed (long) take a look at this and see if you can
see what the others are doing with
cams and the setups and output of them.
http://ls1info.com/camstats click on see the results. to view
or just enter your setup.. if you have one.
You can sort by horsepower, lsa or what ever
by clicking on that col. there are several 400+
setups to see..
Terry
see what the others are doing with
cams and the setups and output of them.
http://ls1info.com/camstats click on see the results. to view
or just enter your setup.. if you have one.
You can sort by horsepower, lsa or what ever
by clicking on that col. there are several 400+
setups to see..
Terry
Re: Cam choice help needed (long) 98SS,
The reason why many cars you see have much higher hp than torque is because the torque starts falling off, but the hp stays up because the motor is revving so high. You will make more hp at 7000 than you will at 6000, as long as the torque doesnt fall off too much. HP is a formula. So, if you dont want to rev your motor high, your hp and tq numbers will be much closer together. HP=(rpm*tq)/5252. You could look at some of Comps grinds. They have some 218 and 224 lobes I believe that have a .537 lift.
Brad
The reason why many cars you see have much higher hp than torque is because the torque starts falling off, but the hp stays up because the motor is revving so high. You will make more hp at 7000 than you will at 6000, as long as the torque doesnt fall off too much. HP is a formula. So, if you dont want to rev your motor high, your hp and tq numbers will be much closer together. HP=(rpm*tq)/5252. You could look at some of Comps grinds. They have some 218 and 224 lobes I believe that have a .537 lift.
Brad
Re: Cam choice help needed (long) If you want lumpy, chaotic idle, you need to narrow the lobe separation to a minimum of 110. This will bring your low and mid-range power down. Good cam choice would be 220/220, .500/.500, 110LSA, but I caution you to still upgrade valve springs. To get the lumpy idle you're looking for, you need more duration and overlap and those two are hard to come by with stock springs.
__________________
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 350
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From: Lexington, SC
Re: Cam choice help needed (long) Jason, you pretty much want what I want. Right now my choices are the T1 or Hotcam. Those are about the lumpiest (proven) cams you can get without PCM tuning. I'm not sure the exact lift numbers on these cams and I'd check them out at raughammer's site, but I can't get there for some reason. <img src="images/icons/confused.gif" border="0"> The only thing I'm not sure of is how often the valvesprings need to be changed if ever. Can someone help us out here? I will definitely upgrade my springs, but how often will they have to be changed?
<img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[Burnout]" />
<img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[Burnout]" />
Trending Topics
Re: Cam choice help needed (long) Patrick- Is anyone running a 110lsa right now? I have an M6, will I need programming? I know these questions sound newbieish, but I've never seen anyone run that low of an lsa. I will change the valve springs, I would no matter what cam I'd get. I assume LS6 springs would be fine with that cam. Is this a cam a sponser carries? Also, do you know, or can you predict the characteristics of this cam? Will it make power? I'd like to have at least 380/380 after the cam and an LS6 intake.
Brad- I understand about the rpm thing. But, if you can find Cammin Beast, or maybe if he chimes in you'll see that he's running something like 406/402 N/A. I don't really want to rev over 6400, so I'm not looking to that magic 6800rpm hp number.
Right now I like Patrick's idea the best. Just need those questions answered about the power, and rev limits of this cam. TIA.
Jason
Brad- I understand about the rpm thing. But, if you can find Cammin Beast, or maybe if he chimes in you'll see that he's running something like 406/402 N/A. I don't really want to rev over 6400, so I'm not looking to that magic 6800rpm hp number.
Right now I like Patrick's idea the best. Just need those questions answered about the power, and rev limits of this cam. TIA.
Jason
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Re: Cam choice help needed (long) More Performance has a list of custom cam profiles that you can match together with any LSA you want. I like their 224°/228° .534"/.539" cam on a 112° LSA.
Maybe I should look at the 226°??? <img src="gr_eek2.gif" border="0">
I bet Comp Cams could work with you and get a different lift if you wanted.
Yes, springs will be needed, maybe titanium retainers also.
<img src="graemlins/formula.gif" border="0" alt="[Pontiac]" />
Maybe I should look at the 226°??? <img src="gr_eek2.gif" border="0">
I bet Comp Cams could work with you and get a different lift if you wanted.
Yes, springs will be needed, maybe titanium retainers also.
<img src="graemlins/formula.gif" border="0" alt="[Pontiac]" />
Re: Cam choice help needed (long) What you're looking for is a strange combination: Lumpy idle, but you don't want to rev the wheee out of your motor. OK.
First, increasing duration will increase the lumpiness of the idle, but it will also raise your rpm range way up there.
If you want to keep your rpm range reasonable, you'll need to increase overlap, to achieve the lumpy idle without high revs. You can accomplish this by narrowing lobe separation. This is why I recommended 110 LSA. I also recommended 220/220 to keep the rpm range down below 6400 (it will probably peak around 6000-6100 rpms). If you increase duration to 226 and keep your LSA around 112-114 (like most people are running), you will have the lumpy idle you're looking for, but you will also raise your powerband another 200-300 rpms...not what you're looking for if I understand you correctly. If you are lift-phobic, that's cool...power is in the heads anyway. You can make great power with low lift as long as you have good heads.
The cam I recommended (220/220 110LSA)is not made by any cam manufacturer that I know of, but Comp can grind you a beauty if you ask them.
First, increasing duration will increase the lumpiness of the idle, but it will also raise your rpm range way up there.
If you want to keep your rpm range reasonable, you'll need to increase overlap, to achieve the lumpy idle without high revs. You can accomplish this by narrowing lobe separation. This is why I recommended 110 LSA. I also recommended 220/220 to keep the rpm range down below 6400 (it will probably peak around 6000-6100 rpms). If you increase duration to 226 and keep your LSA around 112-114 (like most people are running), you will have the lumpy idle you're looking for, but you will also raise your powerband another 200-300 rpms...not what you're looking for if I understand you correctly. If you are lift-phobic, that's cool...power is in the heads anyway. You can make great power with low lift as long as you have good heads.
The cam I recommended (220/220 110LSA)is not made by any cam manufacturer that I know of, but Comp can grind you a beauty if you ask them.
__________________
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.