The LS1 EWP is out
12-22-2001, 04:28 AM
#81
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Re: The LS1 EWP is out Excellent post John!
Jay, Last time I checked I have rubber hoses and hose clamps coming out of my water pump, im not a real racer either but now you have me worried that they will pop off during a run and screw my car over unless I replace them with expensive braided steel lines! <img src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0">
I have no doubt a car like Rob Raymer's would add several mph to his trap speed by being able to crank up the boost safely with the benefits of reverse cooling, but what about us heads cam guys? I am running 11.5:1 compression on 93 octane and would love an affordable water pump to let me add some more timing to the mix, but are you seriously going to sit here and call us "extremely frugal" (ie cheap) for turning our nose away from an $850 water pump? The only way I could see your pump living up to its claims is if it was installed on a car suffering from higher parasitic loss (stock pulleys etc) and several degrees of knock because the car is way out of tune. I think Raugh's offer is extremely fair, if you are so confident in your piece 25 rwhp should be a walk in the park for his setup or for anyone else who pays attention to detail so much.
Challenge extended.
NickG <img src="graemlins/gr_devil.gif" border="0" alt="[devil]" />
Jay, Last time I checked I have rubber hoses and hose clamps coming out of my water pump, im not a real racer either but now you have me worried that they will pop off during a run and screw my car over unless I replace them with expensive braided steel lines! <img src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0">
I have no doubt a car like Rob Raymer's would add several mph to his trap speed by being able to crank up the boost safely with the benefits of reverse cooling, but what about us heads cam guys? I am running 11.5:1 compression on 93 octane and would love an affordable water pump to let me add some more timing to the mix, but are you seriously going to sit here and call us "extremely frugal" (ie cheap) for turning our nose away from an $850 water pump? The only way I could see your pump living up to its claims is if it was installed on a car suffering from higher parasitic loss (stock pulleys etc) and several degrees of knock because the car is way out of tune. I think Raugh's offer is extremely fair, if you are so confident in your piece 25 rwhp should be a walk in the park for his setup or for anyone else who pays attention to detail so much.
Challenge extended.
NickG <img src="graemlins/gr_devil.gif" border="0" alt="[devil]" />
12-22-2001, 05:58 AM
#82
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Re: The LS1 EWP is out $500 or maybe $600 would make me consider this purchase IF it would give me .2 ET gain.
At least Joe has the 'nads to post in the face of all this negativity. I respect that.
At that price, though, I would have to have exhausted other options, including beefier parts that would give me longevity and not necessarily mor power (like rearend or tranny).
But I bought an SLP hood and I didn't get ANY HP out of that!
At least Joe has the 'nads to post in the face of all this negativity. I respect that.
At that price, though, I would have to have exhausted other options, including beefier parts that would give me longevity and not necessarily mor power (like rearend or tranny).
But I bought an SLP hood and I didn't get ANY HP out of that!
12-22-2001, 10:37 AM
#84
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Re: The LS1 EWP is out Jay wont pick anyone from this site. he'll find an "independent" tester that will meet JPR standards. people that doubt wont get to be testers. even though that will be the best was to test.
12-22-2001, 10:54 AM
#85
Re: The LS1 EWP is out No Jay will get a HONEST independant tester
Jays not a BSer guys..
I've known his for a long time
He's as honest as the days long....
Just give him a chance....
Wil lwe see 25RW,I dont think so but I bet u see 10RW to 20RW depending on the application..
JS
Jays not a BSer guys..
I've known his for a long time
He's as honest as the days long....
Just give him a chance....
Wil lwe see 25RW,I dont think so but I bet u see 10RW to 20RW depending on the application..
JS
12-22-2001, 11:31 AM
#86
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Re: The LS1 EWP is out Give the guy a chance. I know the pump will only be worth 7-8rwhp or so for most people, but I still think that is a pretty good deal for guys who have nothing left to do.
Look at it this way, we will spend $700-800 to remove 44#s from the front of our cars via a kmembers and aarms, which is really only worth the equivalent of 4-5rwhp. So how is this any different?
Look at it this way, we will spend $700-800 to remove 44#s from the front of our cars via a kmembers and aarms, which is really only worth the equivalent of 4-5rwhp. So how is this any different?
12-22-2001, 11:44 AM
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Re: The LS1 EWP is out [quote]Originally posted by JS:
<strong>No Jay will get a HONEST independant tester
Jays not a BSer guys..
I've known his for a long time
He's as honest as the days long....
Just give him a chance....
Wil lwe see 25RW,I dont think so but I bet u see 10RW to 20RW depending on the application..
JS</strong><hr></blockquote>
Didnt say he wasnt honest. just that he wouldnt use someone with doubts for the test (i.e. jmX or Raughammer). not that your opinion is too unbiased, Mr. JPR.
<strong>No Jay will get a HONEST independant tester
Jays not a BSer guys..
I've known his for a long time
He's as honest as the days long....
Just give him a chance....
Wil lwe see 25RW,I dont think so but I bet u see 10RW to 20RW depending on the application..
JS</strong><hr></blockquote>
Didnt say he wasnt honest. just that he wouldnt use someone with doubts for the test (i.e. jmX or Raughammer). not that your opinion is too unbiased, Mr. JPR.
12-22-2001, 11:53 AM
#88
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Re: The LS1 EWP is out [quote]Look at it this way, we will spend $700-800 to remove 44#s from the front of our cars via a kmembers and aarms, which is really only worth the equivalent of 4-5rwhp. So how is this any different?<hr></blockquote>
Great point.
I too agree $850 is sticker shock but lets wait and see what happens. The people that will benefit the most are the guys with a shitload of money into their car already and probably won't mind another $850. Especially if it lets them run that extra few degrees of timing or psi of boost. For the big cube, high compression, FI type people those extra few degrees of timing or psi of boost means alot. Or being able to run what they currently have on 93 or 91 octane instead of having to use 100 or toulene or etc.....
I myself would never buy one until I see it proven to make a difference over and over again, and then hopefully by that point the price has dropped some.
For me lets say I could use this pump instead of the water injection to run 6psi of non-intercooled boost, with the stock program, on 91 octane, and I could pick it up for $500-$600. I would be all over it. Lets me run the boost I want and I don't have to worry about dealing with the maintaince of the water injection system. That's a win-win all the way.
So it seems to me this is a product that will be targeted at certain situations, not the masses. Perhaps it can become a masses type product at the $500 level but it never will be at $850.
Happy Holidays to all, and stop bashing the poor guy. If you did all that work and invested all that money, you may have set the price at $850 too. You don't know until you have done it. It's very easy to stand on the sidelines and bash the guy, but if it's so easy to build this product for $300, or whatever it is you expect to pay for it. Then do it!
Aloha, I'm off to Hawaii <img src="graemlins/gr_xmas.gif" border="0" alt="[santa]" />
Great point.
I too agree $850 is sticker shock but lets wait and see what happens. The people that will benefit the most are the guys with a shitload of money into their car already and probably won't mind another $850. Especially if it lets them run that extra few degrees of timing or psi of boost. For the big cube, high compression, FI type people those extra few degrees of timing or psi of boost means alot. Or being able to run what they currently have on 93 or 91 octane instead of having to use 100 or toulene or etc.....
I myself would never buy one until I see it proven to make a difference over and over again, and then hopefully by that point the price has dropped some.
For me lets say I could use this pump instead of the water injection to run 6psi of non-intercooled boost, with the stock program, on 91 octane, and I could pick it up for $500-$600. I would be all over it. Lets me run the boost I want and I don't have to worry about dealing with the maintaince of the water injection system. That's a win-win all the way.
So it seems to me this is a product that will be targeted at certain situations, not the masses. Perhaps it can become a masses type product at the $500 level but it never will be at $850.
Happy Holidays to all, and stop bashing the poor guy. If you did all that work and invested all that money, you may have set the price at $850 too. You don't know until you have done it. It's very easy to stand on the sidelines and bash the guy, but if it's so easy to build this product for $300, or whatever it is you expect to pay for it. Then do it!
Aloha, I'm off to Hawaii <img src="graemlins/gr_xmas.gif" border="0" alt="[santa]" />
12-22-2001, 01:02 PM
#89
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Re: The LS1 EWP is out [quote]Originally posted by Terry Burger:
<strong>Look at it this way, we will spend $700-800 to remove 44#s from the front of our cars via a kmembers and aarms, which is really only worth the equivalent of 4-5rwhp. So how is this any different?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Exactly!
He should go public and take Visceral up on his offer while his car is at MTI.
Texas: Good gas and cool weather right now, MTI is a good shop. This is a 'Golden' opportunity for the Joe Prince EWP testing. If it doesn't get decent power out of that car then it probably can't. And just take the test as is, not as an indication everyone will get the same power. But at least it would be an indicator and a start.
<strong>Look at it this way, we will spend $700-800 to remove 44#s from the front of our cars via a kmembers and aarms, which is really only worth the equivalent of 4-5rwhp. So how is this any different?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Exactly!
He should go public and take Visceral up on his offer while his car is at MTI.
Texas: Good gas and cool weather right now, MTI is a good shop. This is a 'Golden' opportunity for the Joe Prince EWP testing. If it doesn't get decent power out of that car then it probably can't. And just take the test as is, not as an indication everyone will get the same power. But at least it would be an indicator and a start.
12-22-2001, 01:20 PM
#90
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Re: The LS1 EWP is out [quote]Originally posted by JS:
<strong>No Jay will get a HONEST independant tester
Jays not a BSer guys..
JS</strong><hr></blockquote>
Do you know the definition of independent testing??
<strong>No Jay will get a HONEST independant tester
Jays not a BSer guys..
JS</strong><hr></blockquote>
Do you know the definition of independent testing??
12-22-2001, 02:12 PM
#91
Re: The LS1 EWP is out [quote]Originally posted by ls1fun:
<strong>
Exactly!
He should go public and take Visceral up on his offer while his car is at MTI.
Texas: Good gas and cool weather right now, MTI is a good shop. This is a 'Golden' opportunity for the Joe Prince EWP testing. If it doesn't get decent power out of that car then it probably can't. And just take the test as is, not as an indication everyone will get the same power. But at least it would be an indicator and a start.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I really really want to see this product succeed to be what it is claimed to be. If I can get a good EWP that gives me 17+ hp, I'd pay the $$$, and I think alot of serious C5 and F-body folks would too. Id be near 450 rwhp if I uncapped cutouts. I want to give Jay the best opportunity I can to prove his product in a format that most here would subscribe to. I think Jay and Joe worked very hard on this product, and they clearly are very proud of it. I dont think they have *any* interest in screwing ppl on this board with overinflated claims and high prices. People here are pretty brutal and straight up (sometimes too much so, far more than they would be face to face). But at the same time, I dont want to risk (like everyone else here) ending up with an EWP that makes 6hp for $850. So my offer is to pay MTI to use my car as a objective test mule. And at the same time, I need to work out with Jay or Joe a system whereby I can have a remedy if it doesnt do what is claimed here. If its not exactly like what I proposed, thats cool. I wouldnt even want to publicize the details, EXCEPT that I would be actually paying for the thing (objectivity again) if it made a certain benefit (17hp, in my mind). Jay and Joe do not want to end up publicly giving me the pump for a smaller price than others if the results are "in the middle". Thats fine. I can be reached at cnolke@excite.com . But I offer what Joe and Jay cannot have yet... An objective "common configuration" testbed, where the work is performed by objectively very highly skillful people, with a prescribed end plan. And one that folks on all 3 boards could not chllenge the objectivity of.
If Joe and Jay do not choose to do such a thing, wether it is with me or someone else, then the risk is that most here and on other boards will percieve they are not up to the challenge. Others just need objective evidence before they buy. I think over time, that may come out without tests like the one I propose. It would take awhile though...
We'll see.....
chris
<strong>
Exactly!
He should go public and take Visceral up on his offer while his car is at MTI.
Texas: Good gas and cool weather right now, MTI is a good shop. This is a 'Golden' opportunity for the Joe Prince EWP testing. If it doesn't get decent power out of that car then it probably can't. And just take the test as is, not as an indication everyone will get the same power. But at least it would be an indicator and a start.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I really really want to see this product succeed to be what it is claimed to be. If I can get a good EWP that gives me 17+ hp, I'd pay the $$$, and I think alot of serious C5 and F-body folks would too. Id be near 450 rwhp if I uncapped cutouts. I want to give Jay the best opportunity I can to prove his product in a format that most here would subscribe to. I think Jay and Joe worked very hard on this product, and they clearly are very proud of it. I dont think they have *any* interest in screwing ppl on this board with overinflated claims and high prices. People here are pretty brutal and straight up (sometimes too much so, far more than they would be face to face). But at the same time, I dont want to risk (like everyone else here) ending up with an EWP that makes 6hp for $850. So my offer is to pay MTI to use my car as a objective test mule. And at the same time, I need to work out with Jay or Joe a system whereby I can have a remedy if it doesnt do what is claimed here. If its not exactly like what I proposed, thats cool. I wouldnt even want to publicize the details, EXCEPT that I would be actually paying for the thing (objectivity again) if it made a certain benefit (17hp, in my mind). Jay and Joe do not want to end up publicly giving me the pump for a smaller price than others if the results are "in the middle". Thats fine. I can be reached at cnolke@excite.com . But I offer what Joe and Jay cannot have yet... An objective "common configuration" testbed, where the work is performed by objectively very highly skillful people, with a prescribed end plan. And one that folks on all 3 boards could not chllenge the objectivity of.
If Joe and Jay do not choose to do such a thing, wether it is with me or someone else, then the risk is that most here and on other boards will percieve they are not up to the challenge. Others just need objective evidence before they buy. I think over time, that may come out without tests like the one I propose. It would take awhile though...
We'll see.....
chris
12-22-2001, 03:51 PM
#92
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Re: The LS1 EWP is out Fellas, dont think for a sec that I dont beleive this EWP idea has merit. Or that it is incapable of being a valuable mod.
I took umbrage at the way certain language was used. And responeded to it as I would have if I had been face to face with the individual that posted the contentious words.
The pump? The pump deserves a chance... I beleive it should be independently tested. I also believe it could and should be marketed at a lower price. You cant sell an item if folks wont pay the price your asking. Is it worth 850 bones? I'm sure to the builder it is. If it was guaranteed to deliver advertised gains. (three and half tenths on a modified LS1 equipped with an automatic)..Heck it would be worth it to me.
I respect the where-with-all that it took to build the pump, to test the pump, and the cajones to post it for sale on the BBB's.
But you cant post something out here on the "boards" and not expect people to call you on your claims.
I also would have liked some PROOF that it works before posting those afore mentioned gains.
Percieved bashing?. I guess I was, I was bashing outlandish claims, I was bashing combative inuendoes. Was I bashing the product? No, not at all.
P.S., the thread has been pretty clean so far as cuss words, name calling, etc. go. This speaks very good for the high class of folks who post on here. Please fellas, let's keep it that way. Keep the conversation spirited, but keep it above the belt.
Raugh.
I took umbrage at the way certain language was used. And responeded to it as I would have if I had been face to face with the individual that posted the contentious words.
The pump? The pump deserves a chance... I beleive it should be independently tested. I also believe it could and should be marketed at a lower price. You cant sell an item if folks wont pay the price your asking. Is it worth 850 bones? I'm sure to the builder it is. If it was guaranteed to deliver advertised gains. (three and half tenths on a modified LS1 equipped with an automatic)..Heck it would be worth it to me.
I respect the where-with-all that it took to build the pump, to test the pump, and the cajones to post it for sale on the BBB's.
But you cant post something out here on the "boards" and not expect people to call you on your claims.
I also would have liked some PROOF that it works before posting those afore mentioned gains.
Percieved bashing?. I guess I was, I was bashing outlandish claims, I was bashing combative inuendoes. Was I bashing the product? No, not at all.
P.S., the thread has been pretty clean so far as cuss words, name calling, etc. go. This speaks very good for the high class of folks who post on here. Please fellas, let's keep it that way. Keep the conversation spirited, but keep it above the belt.
Raugh.
12-22-2001, 07:30 PM
#93
Re: The LS1 EWP is out I might be paranoid but I feel alot of guys r not giving Jay a chance.
Now we go as far as telling me I dont know the meaning of a word,BIG DEAL.U get a cookie.
What is your point other than to insult me.
I agree this pump needs to be tested INDEPENDANTLY
I also agree w/a dyno session,a w/b and LS1 edit u can extract HP from a N/A setup along w/a FI setup w/the pump.
There's a benefitsto this pump for sure.
How much,I'm not sure?
But if it does give u say 10 to 20RWHP would u guys then buy it?
If I ONLY got 10RWHP
I'd buy for sure...
Jay and Joe r my friends but I will agree w/most.
TEST IT THE CORRECT WAY.ON A DYNO INDEPENDANTLY
Why dont 1 N/A setup and 1 FI setup come to u Jays and let him put it on,then go to Cartek for testing.That would be very fair.
Truthfully though,The ONLY guys I'd give a pump to for testing would be John Raughammer and Rob Rayer.I think they would report their findings HONESLTY.
JS
Defintion challanged SOMETIMES <img src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" border="0">
Now we go as far as telling me I dont know the meaning of a word,BIG DEAL.U get a cookie.
What is your point other than to insult me.
I agree this pump needs to be tested INDEPENDANTLY
I also agree w/a dyno session,a w/b and LS1 edit u can extract HP from a N/A setup along w/a FI setup w/the pump.
There's a benefitsto this pump for sure.
How much,I'm not sure?
But if it does give u say 10 to 20RWHP would u guys then buy it?
If I ONLY got 10RWHP
I'd buy for sure...
Jay and Joe r my friends but I will agree w/most.
TEST IT THE CORRECT WAY.ON A DYNO INDEPENDANTLY
Why dont 1 N/A setup and 1 FI setup come to u Jays and let him put it on,then go to Cartek for testing.That would be very fair.
Truthfully though,The ONLY guys I'd give a pump to for testing would be John Raughammer and Rob Rayer.I think they would report their findings HONESLTY.
JS
Defintion challanged SOMETIMES <img src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" border="0">
12-22-2001, 08:22 PM
#94
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Re: The LS1 EWP is out Jay,
I understand the expense and R&D you have invested, but $850.00 for a freaking water pump is absolutely ridiculous. Would you rather sell 75 units at $450.00 or 25 units (thats being overly optimistic) at $850.00? You come across like you are wanting to retire off of this product. I would be really interested to know how much profit you have in this pump. 200%? 300%?
Another idea to reduce the cost would be to drop the unnecessary, and expensive braided hose and offer a rubber hose and worm gear clamp set up, just like the car comes from GM.
If you are able to substantiate your claims with a credible independent tester, such as MTI, and drop your price by $400.00 and you will have more business than you can handle.
If I were in your shoes I would re-think your marketing position. If you don't, and choose to continue to ask $850.00 for this "wonder pump" you will have no one to blame for yourself when the phone isn't ringing with folks trying to buy your product. Please use some common sense and all parties will benefit.
I understand the expense and R&D you have invested, but $850.00 for a freaking water pump is absolutely ridiculous. Would you rather sell 75 units at $450.00 or 25 units (thats being overly optimistic) at $850.00? You come across like you are wanting to retire off of this product. I would be really interested to know how much profit you have in this pump. 200%? 300%?
Another idea to reduce the cost would be to drop the unnecessary, and expensive braided hose and offer a rubber hose and worm gear clamp set up, just like the car comes from GM.
If you are able to substantiate your claims with a credible independent tester, such as MTI, and drop your price by $400.00 and you will have more business than you can handle.
If I were in your shoes I would re-think your marketing position. If you don't, and choose to continue to ask $850.00 for this "wonder pump" you will have no one to blame for yourself when the phone isn't ringing with folks trying to buy your product. Please use some common sense and all parties will benefit.
12-22-2001, 08:24 PM
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Re: The LS1 EWP is out [quote]Originally posted by JS:
<strong>Why dont 1 N/A setup and 1 FI setup come to u Jays and let him put it on,then go to Cartek for testing.That would be very fair.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Sorry, I dont think thats very good. We need people we trust on this board in different cities to try it out. Dont pick some guy up there on the east coast, pick somebody in texas or cali...preferabbly at a reputable dyno...say, MTI for instance.
<strong>Why dont 1 N/A setup and 1 FI setup come to u Jays and let him put it on,then go to Cartek for testing.That would be very fair.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Sorry, I dont think thats very good. We need people we trust on this board in different cities to try it out. Dont pick some guy up there on the east coast, pick somebody in texas or cali...preferabbly at a reputable dyno...say, MTI for instance.
12-22-2001, 09:23 PM
#96
Re: The LS1 EWP is out JMX
R u insinuating the EAST COAST LS1 crowd isnt on the up and up?Or that CARTEK is not on the up and up?I did say if Raugh got the pump and tested it he would tell the truth.I trust him.
JMX r a funny guy
Let me remind u about something.
U got hood winked into a SUPERIOR,BETTER S2 head and paid ALOT more money for how much improvement?
Here I'll refresh your memory
ZERO,NADDA,NOTHING,NO GAIN..
How come I dont see u complaining about that
U spend BOO KOO money for S2 heads that were supposed to be better but u got ZERO not to mention problems w/valve float etc.
Just give Jay a chance
Thats all I'm saying about this.
JS
One of the untrusting East Coast guys
R u insinuating the EAST COAST LS1 crowd isnt on the up and up?Or that CARTEK is not on the up and up?I did say if Raugh got the pump and tested it he would tell the truth.I trust him.
JMX r a funny guy
Let me remind u about something.
U got hood winked into a SUPERIOR,BETTER S2 head and paid ALOT more money for how much improvement?
Here I'll refresh your memory
ZERO,NADDA,NOTHING,NO GAIN..
How come I dont see u complaining about that
U spend BOO KOO money for S2 heads that were supposed to be better but u got ZERO not to mention problems w/valve float etc.
Just give Jay a chance
Thats all I'm saying about this.
JS
One of the untrusting East Coast guys
12-22-2001, 10:21 PM
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Re: The LS1 EWP is out [quote]Originally posted by JS:
<strong>JMX
R u insinuating the EAST COAST LS1 crowd isnt on the up and up?Or that CARTEK is not on the up and up?I did say if Raugh got the pump and tested it he would tell the truth.I trust him.
JMX r a funny guy
Let me remind u about something.
U got hood winked into a SUPERIOR,BETTER S2 head and paid ALOT more money for how much improvement?
Here I'll refresh your memory
ZERO,NADDA,NOTHING,NO GAIN..
How come I dont see u complaining about that
U spend BOO KOO money for S2 heads that were supposed to be better but u got ZERO not to mention problems w/valve float etc.
Just give Jay a chance
Thats all I'm saying about this.
JS
One of the untrusting East Coast guys</strong><hr></blockquote>
JS, I've heard enough about you to realize I should ignore almost everything that you say, so I'll cut to the chase. I never said I dont trust east coast people, When I said what I said, I meant we need people that AREN'T in the area of jay/joe's shop or cartek, make it truly independant testing, IE, the dyno operator and car owner and installer have nothing to gain or lose from testing the product. The MTI car was the perfect example.
As for the S2 heads, they cost a little more than my IRS heads, but not much....Nick Agostino worked me a really good deal. Throw in the sale of my other heads and I came out really cheap to move to these heads....which coincidentally will work very well for the large bore motor I'll be buying possibly this year. So, reguardless of current hp gains, I did get what I wanted..the ability to run a larger bore. The valvefloat problems happened on the IRS heads too, it was a cam issue, not a head issue....so that has nothing to do with this.
As for us not giving Joe's pump a chance, all we are doing is giving him a chance...look at all the people in the thread willing to give it a chance. We just wanna see some tests, and people have been willing to lay out their own cash to test this. How is that not giving them a chance? I have nothing but respect for Joe, and if he was on our end I'm sure he'd be calling for the exact same proof.
JS, as you would say, "U R talking about stuff U don't no"
<strong>JMX
R u insinuating the EAST COAST LS1 crowd isnt on the up and up?Or that CARTEK is not on the up and up?I did say if Raugh got the pump and tested it he would tell the truth.I trust him.
JMX r a funny guy
Let me remind u about something.
U got hood winked into a SUPERIOR,BETTER S2 head and paid ALOT more money for how much improvement?
Here I'll refresh your memory
ZERO,NADDA,NOTHING,NO GAIN..
How come I dont see u complaining about that
U spend BOO KOO money for S2 heads that were supposed to be better but u got ZERO not to mention problems w/valve float etc.
Just give Jay a chance
Thats all I'm saying about this.
JS
One of the untrusting East Coast guys</strong><hr></blockquote>
JS, I've heard enough about you to realize I should ignore almost everything that you say, so I'll cut to the chase. I never said I dont trust east coast people, When I said what I said, I meant we need people that AREN'T in the area of jay/joe's shop or cartek, make it truly independant testing, IE, the dyno operator and car owner and installer have nothing to gain or lose from testing the product. The MTI car was the perfect example.
As for the S2 heads, they cost a little more than my IRS heads, but not much....Nick Agostino worked me a really good deal. Throw in the sale of my other heads and I came out really cheap to move to these heads....which coincidentally will work very well for the large bore motor I'll be buying possibly this year. So, reguardless of current hp gains, I did get what I wanted..the ability to run a larger bore. The valvefloat problems happened on the IRS heads too, it was a cam issue, not a head issue....so that has nothing to do with this.
As for us not giving Joe's pump a chance, all we are doing is giving him a chance...look at all the people in the thread willing to give it a chance. We just wanna see some tests, and people have been willing to lay out their own cash to test this. How is that not giving them a chance? I have nothing but respect for Joe, and if he was on our end I'm sure he'd be calling for the exact same proof.
JS, as you would say, "U R talking about stuff U don't no"
12-22-2001, 10:52 PM
#99
Re: The LS1 EWP is out [quote]Originally posted by JS:
<strong>Why dont 1 N/A setup and 1 FI setup come to u Jays and let him put it on,then go to Cartek for testing.That would be very fair.
<img src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" border="0"> </strong><hr></blockquote>
No offense to cartek, but why not take the car to a shop that is not in any way associated with F-body's, such as Larocca's or J.D.'s here in PA (they just had a dyno-jet installed).
That way, they have no background or reason to care if the pump succeeds or fails to live up to claims.
I just think going to cartek would be construed as not being a third party.
<strong>Why dont 1 N/A setup and 1 FI setup come to u Jays and let him put it on,then go to Cartek for testing.That would be very fair.
<img src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" border="0"> </strong><hr></blockquote>
No offense to cartek, but why not take the car to a shop that is not in any way associated with F-body's, such as Larocca's or J.D.'s here in PA (they just had a dyno-jet installed).
That way, they have no background or reason to care if the pump succeeds or fails to live up to claims.
I just think going to cartek would be construed as not being a third party.
12-22-2001, 10:58 PM
#100
D(irecto)r Pepper
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Houston Raceway Park...in TEXAS.
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Re: The LS1 EWP is out I'm not going to name names... but guys. Keep it civil and "on topic."
Keep focused on the "issues" and not on the "personal" side of the debate.
This thread needs to stay alive. Much good could come of it. But I will delete/lock it if it gets out of hand. Dont make me go there.
John "Lock-smith" Campbell
Keep focused on the "issues" and not on the "personal" side of the debate.
This thread needs to stay alive. Much good could come of it. But I will delete/lock it if it gets out of hand. Dont make me go there.
John "Lock-smith" Campbell