Fireball

iTrader: (21)

I've been looking REAL hard at Jason99TAs old setup and it got me thinking.

If the cam were a bit more aggressive to allow a little more rpm (peak at 7000 rpm or so) and if more gear and traction were used (4.88s and 28" slicks)

I think 10s N/A with a M6 and STOCK DISPLACEMENT are possible. Is there any flaw in my judgement here? Also, what would be the "ideal" specs for a solid roller cam with S2 heads to peak around 7K rpm??

<img src="graemlins/gr_xmas.gif" border="0" alt="[santa]" />

[ December 31, 2001: Message edited by: Fireball ]</p>

RyanJ

i think with low 1.5x 60's Jason could have had 10's NA. he was only .15 away. i have no clue on a good cam spec though.


Ryan

Nine Ball

iTrader: (38)

LOL! I remember two years ago when everyone thought my 11.90s with stock cubes and M6 were impossible. My how far we have jumped ahead!

Jason would have definitely run 10s na in that car, he had the mph. All he needed was a 1.5X 60' time and it would have happened, that would kick ***!

I'm happy to see solid-roller setups doing well, and I think the learning curve on them is improving nicely with the shops. I'll wait a little longer so more things get figured out and I will probably take the plunge. I'm thinking LS6 heads and a solid-roller. I've love to have 500+ rwhp with an all-bore 382ci, and I know it is possible.

PS, Jason - you suck for not running na 346ci 10s and waving that M6 flag for us!!! <img src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" border="0">

Tony

ExtremeZ28

good lord i dont think you need all that gear.....that setup had 10's N/A written all over it...it just needed a good 60' to get there thats all.....

GeorgeC

A mechanical roller seems to be the way to go if you don't mind spending the extra $$$ for everything involved, and don't mind the occasional valve lash adjustments.

I would've gone that route already if there was some kind of valvecover spacer available for the 97-98 perimeter bolt heads... I don't like the idea of having to buy another set of heads just to run a solid cam...

Fireball

iTrader: (21)

[quote]Originally posted by GeorgeC:
<strong>

I would've gone that route already if there was some kind of valvecover spacer available for the 97-98 perimeter bolt heads... I don't like the idea of having to buy another set of heads just to run a solid cam...</strong><hr></blockquote>

Then fabricate your own <img src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" border="0"> <img src="gr_grin.gif" border="0">

JS

iTrader: (4)

U BETTER use a balanced assembly.
I would use the stock crank but get good rods,pistons and have the bottem end studded or have ARP bolts threwout..

7000 rpm isnt gonna take to well on a assembly line short block

JS

Fireball

iTrader: (21)

I was thinking Forged pistons, factory rods/crank (balanced of course) ARP rodbolts and mainstuds at a minimum.

But Geoff has some good points which makes alot of sense to me. With my tire combo I could get away with 4.56 gears and cross 6600-6800 rpm.

I need more than 4.30 gears with my 28's if I want any chance of 60-footing <img src="gr_grin.gif" border="0">

ChrisB

I would keep the rpm down under 7000 also with a stock LS1 shortblock - and personally I don't think it would be worthwile to rebuild the bottom end back to a 346 for a few extra rpm - if the motors out and apart go with a larger bore.

I would submit that the cam jason had worked very will within the stock bottom end constraints. About the only other thing I might have considered would be a rev kit - this would mainly help with keeping the lash set and longevity of the cam/lifters (which shouldn't be an issue).

I would suggest speaking with a shop who has done it before though, as there are lots of little things that could be a PITA when you are trying to get the car running.


Chris

Visceral

iTrader: (1)

I remember think the exact same thing back about 1 year ago <img src="gr_stretch.gif" border="0"> Nick said "Lets do it!", and now Iv elearned alot, spent alot of money, and Im back at hydraulic again. I htink alot was learnt about which parts work in which way and I bailed early. Geoff has some great stuff working. There are a whole lot of Gotchas that I think have finally all been mapped out. I dont think the lash adjustment interval is a problem. I think ppl find that they stick to the setting really well. The cams are great... Flycutting the pistons in the block is just sorta unnerving and time consuming.... I *still* say go with Jesel over T&D. Thats a variety of customer experiences feeding that one.

Good luck

Chris

Fireball

iTrader: (21)

well...the reason the bottom end is coming apart is that its kinda wore out <img src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0">

I think 64K is too many miles for it (pops the dipstick out at WOT, smokes pretty bad at WOT (blue smoke), really bad cold start knock, etc <img src="gr_tounge.gif" border="0">

Normally a re-ring would be sufficient but previous valvespring failures had put nices little mushrooms in the pistons so I might as well pop new ones in <img src="gr_stretch.gif" border="0">

Jason99T/A

iTrader: (21)

[quote]Originally posted by Nine Ball:
<strong>PS, Jason - you suck for not running na 346ci 10s and waving that M6 flag for us!!! <img src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" border="0">

Tony</strong><hr></blockquote>

LOL, I know Tony.. I really should have got a 10sec pass out of it before I got rid of it since I knew the car had 10s in it with a 1.5x 60'. Only problem was there wasn't any good tracks around here that would let me run and I really didn't want to put a cage in my car at that time. In a year or two, I'll put cage in the car when I get another daily driver and go back to that setup w/ more cubes. <img src="gr_grin.gif" border="0"> I think that would be pretty kick ***!

Also, Chris is right, there is alot of little stuff that needs to be done to get the car running (flycutting the pistons, trimming the valvecover spacers, clearancing the heads for extra pushrod/rocker clearance, trimming the passenger side valvecover,etc...)

Brian, I replied to your email.

[ December 31, 2001: Message edited by: Jason99T/A ]</p>

Geoff

iTrader: (3)

Fireball,

Jason's setup was built with the goal of using the stock shortblock assembly. 7000+ RPM shift points and a stock short block doesn't allow the engine to last very long. The cam in his setup made great power and torque between 4500 RPM and 6600 RPM. At least from what I have seen this is the sweet spot for a stock displacement LS1 with a stock type (LS6) intake. Once you turn the engine higher than this the intake starts to not be as efficient and in order to not keep the power from falling off drastically you will need to get MUCH larger on the cam. This isn't necessarily a problem, BUT the trade-off in midrange torque may render the car no faster than the small cam combination unless you are prepared to run a really steep gear.

Remember Jason ran those times with a 4.30 gear and a 26" Tall slick. That gear is still usable on the street.

If you get time call me, I would be glad to talk to you more about this.

Silver Pig

Fireball, I have a short block already built for you! <img src="gr_stretch.gif" border="0"> Stock crank, stock rod, and a forged piston. ARP rod bolts and head studs

If you need more info let me know.

Sean(Pig)

Fireball

iTrader: (21)

[quote]Originally posted by Silver Pig:
<strong>Fireball, I have a short block already built for you! <img src="gr_stretch.gif" border="0"> Stock crank, stock rod, and a forged piston. ARP rod bolts and head studs

If you need more info let me know.

Sean(Pig)</strong><hr></blockquote>

only one forged piston??? what about the other 7 <img src="gr_tounge.gif" border="0"> <img src="gr_grin.gif" border="0">

ChrisB

Probably Cast Iron.

<img src="gr_stretch.gif" border="0">

Chris

Silver Pig

[quote]Originally posted by ChrisB:
<strong>Probably Cast Iron.

<img src="gr_stretch.gif" border="0">

Chris</strong><hr></blockquote>

Nope its an aluminum block! <img src="gr_grin.gif" border="0"> <img src="graemlins/gr_barf.gif" border="0" alt="[barf]" /> ChrisB

I found the other 7 forged pistons today. I didnt feel comfortable saying I had them all so I just said I had one of them yesterday! <img src="gr_grin.gif" border="0"> Its complete now!

Sean(Pig)

Fireball

iTrader: (21)

I've talked to several people about this idea and what I've obtained so far:

use 5.3L heads to up compression. How will this effect flow potential vs a ported LS1 head

Cam specs. I've gotten the whole range from 230 to 270 <img src="gr_eek2.gif" border="0"> I want something with the "drive-in" appeal, ie a really cool sounding rumpety rump (maybe something similar sounding to the CC306 in the LT1). This will NOT be a sleeper <img src="gr_grin.gif" border="0">

Others have brought up issues of reliablity whereas Jason99TA said he didn't have any problems. I thought valve lash and spring wear would be the only "real" problems or am I missing something here???

Joe Kizzire

[quote]Originally posted by Jason99T/A:
<strong>Only problem I can see driving the car everyday with a very aggressive cam that will require a ton of seat/open pressure is valve seat wear. You will slamming the valve open and closed very hard and this will wear the seats out over time.
[ January 06, 2002: Message edited by: Jason99T/A ]</strong><hr></blockquote>

I'm going to have to dissagree with you on this one Jason. Closed on the seat pressure on a LS1 solid roller will work at around 140 to 150lbs and open aroumd 400lbs due to the light weight of the valvetrain. 200lb seat pressure is fine on a big block with a 2.300 stainless intake valve but it's not necessary on the LS1 unless you planing on turning the engine over 8000rpm. All the extra seat pressure will do is cause premature seat wear.

Valvespring pressure on the street is one place where overkill is not good.

ChrisB

Valvespring pressure will depend quite alot on your valvetrain wait and lobe profiles, as well as your intended rpm range. I would probably want a little more than 140 seat pressure. 400 total may be fine, but I would probably want a little more assuming a decent sized cam.

Joe's right, if you can get away with less it's better - but I would rather have a little safety margin. Heck, I am having to run pretty close to Joe's specs on my hydraulic roller just to get it to rev to 7k.

Now if you threw in a rev kit on the solid you can get away with lower spring pressures, plus hopefully increase lifter longevity.


Chris