GTP or MTI Stage 2 heads?
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 94
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From: Houston, TX
GTP or MTI Stage 2 heads? I have tried do research this topic but couldn't find the answer I was looking for.
For all of those out there that did buy Stage 2 heads from MTI, did you consider the GTP heads and if you did what made decide to go with MTI over GTP?
For those of you that have GTP heads, why did you choose them over the MTI heads?
I have neither yet and will be buying one of those 2 heads mainly because I am in Houston and do not have the ability to do the work myself to install the heads.
From my research I have found out that one of the main differences between the heads are the springs used. Craig @ GTP told me he uses the 918's. MTI told me they use an Isky brand dual spring.
Someone please tell me why the MTI heads are $800 more than the GTP heads. Does MTI need that much of a markup to cover its overhead costs? Are the MTI heads really $800 "better" than the GTP heads?
I do not intend this as a flame war, as I have purchased MANY items at MTI and have NEVER had any problems with them, including my B1 cam. I just want to get your reasons why you bought your heads and what criteria you consider important in selecting heads.
Thanks, this board is great!!
For all of those out there that did buy Stage 2 heads from MTI, did you consider the GTP heads and if you did what made decide to go with MTI over GTP?
For those of you that have GTP heads, why did you choose them over the MTI heads?
I have neither yet and will be buying one of those 2 heads mainly because I am in Houston and do not have the ability to do the work myself to install the heads.
From my research I have found out that one of the main differences between the heads are the springs used. Craig @ GTP told me he uses the 918's. MTI told me they use an Isky brand dual spring.
Someone please tell me why the MTI heads are $800 more than the GTP heads. Does MTI need that much of a markup to cover its overhead costs? Are the MTI heads really $800 "better" than the GTP heads?
I do not intend this as a flame war, as I have purchased MANY items at MTI and have NEVER had any problems with them, including my B1 cam. I just want to get your reasons why you bought your heads and what criteria you consider important in selecting heads.
Thanks, this board is great!!
Re: GTP or MTI Stage 2 heads? From Thunder Racing's website...
99-GTP-S1 GTP / Thunder Racing STAGE 1 Cylinder Heads, stock valves, assembled with single coil valve springs designed for NO MORE than .500 lift camshafts and stock retainers ($500 CORE CHARGE)
$1,499.99
99-GTPS2-S GTP / Thunder Racing STAGE 2 Cylinder Heads, 2.020 / 1.570 Valves, assembled with single coil valve springs and titanium retainers ($500 CORE CHARGE)
$1,999.99
99-GTP-S2-D GTP / Thunder Racing STAGE 2 Cylinder Heads, 2.020 / 1.570 Valves, assembled with dual coil valve springs and titanium retainers ($500 CORE CHARGE)
$2,499.99
99-GTP-S3 GTP / Thunder Racing STAGE 3 Cylinder Heads, Minimum 4.00 Bore required, 2.055 / 1.570 Valves, assembled with dual coil valve springs and titanium retainers ($500 CORE CHARGE)
$2,599.99
[ January 15, 2002: Message edited by: Pro Stock John ]</p>
99-GTP-S1 GTP / Thunder Racing STAGE 1 Cylinder Heads, stock valves, assembled with single coil valve springs designed for NO MORE than .500 lift camshafts and stock retainers ($500 CORE CHARGE)
$1,499.99
99-GTPS2-S GTP / Thunder Racing STAGE 2 Cylinder Heads, 2.020 / 1.570 Valves, assembled with single coil valve springs and titanium retainers ($500 CORE CHARGE)
$1,999.99
99-GTP-S2-D GTP / Thunder Racing STAGE 2 Cylinder Heads, 2.020 / 1.570 Valves, assembled with dual coil valve springs and titanium retainers ($500 CORE CHARGE)
$2,499.99
99-GTP-S3 GTP / Thunder Racing STAGE 3 Cylinder Heads, Minimum 4.00 Bore required, 2.055 / 1.570 Valves, assembled with dual coil valve springs and titanium retainers ($500 CORE CHARGE)
$2,599.99
[ January 15, 2002: Message edited by: Pro Stock John ]</p>
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 94
Likes: 0
From: Houston, TX
Re: GTP or MTI Stage 2 heads? Matt and PSJ, that is a good point that I overlooked. Thanks for that info.
I guess the next logical question would be, why buy a dual spring setup over a single spring setup?
In my case with a B1 cam, is the dual spring overkill, or is it really worth it in the long run?
[ January 15, 2002: Message edited by: 2K1_4mula ]</p>
I guess the next logical question would be, why buy a dual spring setup over a single spring setup?
In my case with a B1 cam, is the dual spring overkill, or is it really worth it in the long run?
[ January 15, 2002: Message edited by: 2K1_4mula ]</p>
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 34,631
Likes: 2,555
From: Schiller Park, ILL Member: #317
Re: GTP or MTI Stage 2 heads? PSJ, just out of curiosity, why would anyone want springs on a set of aftermarket heads that can only handle .500 lift!? That won’t even cover an LS6 cam...
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 34,631
Likes: 2,555
From: Schiller Park, ILL Member: #317
Re: GTP or MTI Stage 2 heads? [quote]Originally posted by 2K1_4mula:
<strong>Matt and PSJ, that is a good point that I overlooked. Thanks for that info.
I guess the next logical question would be, why buy a dual spring setup over a single spring setup?
In my case with a B1 cam, is the dual spring overkill, or is it really worth it in the long run?
[ January 15, 2002: Message edited by: 2K1_4mula ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
MTI recommended me to use the 26918s (single springs) with their B1 and stock heads. I also opted for the 772 ti retainers just for extra piece of mind. I don’t know of anyone that has broken or floated a 26918 yet on a B1 sized cam (even with stock retainers). But those springs are still rather new (came out last fall I beleive).
<strong>Matt and PSJ, that is a good point that I overlooked. Thanks for that info.
I guess the next logical question would be, why buy a dual spring setup over a single spring setup?
In my case with a B1 cam, is the dual spring overkill, or is it really worth it in the long run?
[ January 15, 2002: Message edited by: 2K1_4mula ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
MTI recommended me to use the 26918s (single springs) with their B1 and stock heads. I also opted for the 772 ti retainers just for extra piece of mind. I don’t know of anyone that has broken or floated a 26918 yet on a B1 sized cam (even with stock retainers). But those springs are still rather new (came out last fall I beleive).
TECH Addict
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From: College Station, Tx
Re: GTP or MTI Stage 2 heads? You can get the Stage II heads fitted for dual springs (GTP) for a small additional price. Which is what I would do personally, though it depends heavily on your cam choice.
The #1 reason for the price difference is the GTP stage II's are using stock seats with 2.02/1.57 valve.
I believe the MTI heads are running 2.055 intake valves, which requires new valve seats.
The GTP stage III heads are similar in hardware to the MTI heads (dual springs, valve seats, etc).
Whether you need bigger valves or not on a stock shortblock is debatable. Personally I don't think they will give you any real gain, but won't hurt to much if the porter is competent. On a larger bore motor I would go with the larger valves though.
Chris
The #1 reason for the price difference is the GTP stage II's are using stock seats with 2.02/1.57 valve.
I believe the MTI heads are running 2.055 intake valves, which requires new valve seats.
The GTP stage III heads are similar in hardware to the MTI heads (dual springs, valve seats, etc).
Whether you need bigger valves or not on a stock shortblock is debatable. Personally I don't think they will give you any real gain, but won't hurt to much if the porter is competent. On a larger bore motor I would go with the larger valves though.
Chris
Trending Topics
Re: GTP or MTI Stage 2 heads? How much is MTI's stage 2 heads/cam combo?
I heard that House of Speed has stage 2 heads and they claim 30 more HP than MTI's heads/cam combo. Does anyone have anything to substantiate this?
[ January 15, 2002: Message edited by: mmiller ]</p>
I heard that House of Speed has stage 2 heads and they claim 30 more HP than MTI's heads/cam combo. Does anyone have anything to substantiate this?
[ January 15, 2002: Message edited by: mmiller ]</p>
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Staging Lane
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 94
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From: Houston, TX
Re: GTP or MTI Stage 2 heads? Wow, more new info for me. Valve sizes.
I will be keeping the 346 size for a while, and would like the heads/springs to last me for a while too.
Are the dual springs more reliable and durable than the 918s?
I will be keeping the 346 size for a while, and would like the heads/springs to last me for a while too.
Are the dual springs more reliable and durable than the 918s?
Re: GTP or MTI Stage 2 heads? I'm kind of a fan of the bigger valves now, the 2.05s and 1.60's... Seems like a lot of guys did great with them. If you did go with with these bigger valves, you need to get new seats, and the combination of these plus double barrel springs will indeed bump up the price.
Re: GTP or MTI Stage 2 heads? MTI makes great money installing their heads onto cars for owners adn handing the owner back a really great sreetable quality package. They have, right now, almost no room for new orders. Corvette folks who would rather spend money than worry about other install shops and the like love MTI for the "One Stop "be like SW" shop" <img src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" border="0">
I sent my Corvette to MTI for the cam install. THey dont need to charge less or make larger claims, since they have all the business they can handle.
GTP makes a really good flowing head. Craig, like MTI, has been involved in high HP SBC cars since well before the LT1 days. If you are a mechanically minded person who wants to install your own stuff, Thunder Racing is one of the best retailers out there. The fact that they carry GTP makes the team even better yet. You *will not* go wrong with a set of heads bought from this pair of companies. You just have to deal with the installation <img src="gr_stretch.gif" border="0"> And for someone who's done 6 head swaps now (with jmX), I think many people should consider doing the install themselves with the help of the HowTo on jmX's page. Just have all the tools, a desire to be very thorough, and the patience to be very very careful and check everything 5 times.
chris
chris
I sent my Corvette to MTI for the cam install. THey dont need to charge less or make larger claims, since they have all the business they can handle.
GTP makes a really good flowing head. Craig, like MTI, has been involved in high HP SBC cars since well before the LT1 days. If you are a mechanically minded person who wants to install your own stuff, Thunder Racing is one of the best retailers out there. The fact that they carry GTP makes the team even better yet. You *will not* go wrong with a set of heads bought from this pair of companies. You just have to deal with the installation <img src="gr_stretch.gif" border="0"> And for someone who's done 6 head swaps now (with jmX), I think many people should consider doing the install themselves with the help of the HowTo on jmX's page. Just have all the tools, a desire to be very thorough, and the patience to be very very careful and check everything 5 times.
chris
chris
Re: GTP or MTI Stage 2 heads? you can't go wrong with MTI, I don't know much about Craig except lately I've heard good things about his combos. With MTI you get what you paid for which includes great customer service and quality parts.
I can shift faster than you.
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From: Baton Rouge, LA
Re: GTP or MTI Stage 2 heads? I have had great success with GTP heads on my old motor. Craig was awesome to deal with and I won't think you will find a better cylinder head for the price on the market.
MTI does offer some great products. You can't go wrong either way. However, my vote would be GTP. <img src="gr_stretch.gif" border="0">
[ January 15, 2002: Message edited by: Jason99T/A ]</p>
MTI does offer some great products. You can't go wrong either way. However, my vote would be GTP. <img src="gr_stretch.gif" border="0">
[ January 15, 2002: Message edited by: Jason99T/A ]</p>
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Galveston, Tx.
Re: GTP or MTI Stage 2 heads? Very few people are as good as Craig. Who's doing the machining for MTI now, anyway? WestSide Racing? The guy from West Side? Someone new? Just curious, I know that they have used several different people to do the machining. Either route you go, you will not be sorry. I have been very happy with GTP. I have friends who are very happy with MTI...
TECH Addict
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From: HOU - yeah, you know the rest.
Re: GTP or MTI Stage 2 heads? [quote]Originally posted by MilDot:
<strong>Very few people are as good as Craig. Who's doing the machining for MTI now, anyway? WestSide Racing? The guy from West Side? Someone new? Just curious, I know that they have used several different people to do the machining. Either route you go, you will not be sorry. I have been very happy with GTP. I have friends who are very happy with MTI...</strong><hr></blockquote>
MTI has its own machine shop and does all its heads in-house for about the last 9-10 months. They are very consistent with their product and do great quality work. Having a flow bench and dyno on-site has helped to keep them @ the top of the LS1/LS6 tuners list.
<strong>Very few people are as good as Craig. Who's doing the machining for MTI now, anyway? WestSide Racing? The guy from West Side? Someone new? Just curious, I know that they have used several different people to do the machining. Either route you go, you will not be sorry. I have been very happy with GTP. I have friends who are very happy with MTI...</strong><hr></blockquote>
MTI has its own machine shop and does all its heads in-house for about the last 9-10 months. They are very consistent with their product and do great quality work. Having a flow bench and dyno on-site has helped to keep them @ the top of the LS1/LS6 tuners list.
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 94
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From: Houston, TX
Re: GTP or MTI Stage 2 heads? Thanks for all the replies.
As far as making power, is there any documented evidence that larger valves on a stock cube motor does indeed make more HP/TQ than an equally ported smaller valved head?
And, does going to a dual spring necessarily mean that the spring will last longer?
If the GTP stage 2 with smaller valves and a single spring is just as powerful/reliable as the MTI stage 2 with larger valves and dual springs, then I will go with GTP. If I am leaving 10 to 15 horses on the table, then I would consider the MTI heads.
As far as making power, is there any documented evidence that larger valves on a stock cube motor does indeed make more HP/TQ than an equally ported smaller valved head?
And, does going to a dual spring necessarily mean that the spring will last longer?
If the GTP stage 2 with smaller valves and a single spring is just as powerful/reliable as the MTI stage 2 with larger valves and dual springs, then I will go with GTP. If I am leaving 10 to 15 horses on the table, then I would consider the MTI heads.
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From: Chicago (Elgin), IL
Re: GTP or MTI Stage 2 heads? I chose GTP when I did mine nearly 3 years ago (DAMN!!!) for a couple of reasons.
A) MTI's packages were very secretive as to their specs
B) Several guys in the MFBA (PSJ included) had experience with GTP's products and had great results with them primarily on LT1's though.
C) Price, Craig was dirt cheap (at that time considering the LS1 was a new thing at the time, $500 for the steel billet cam I got from him was a bargain).
Now, I don't think I have all the latest in springs like you guys speak of and I believe I have 2.02 intake valves. Generally I have the 1st generation of Craig's LS1 heads and cam setup. I'm making decent power (383rwhp and 385lbs-ft torque) on a stock bottom end, I did balance and blueprint it though, but it is still 346 cubes. I haven't had any problems with the springs being 918's or whatever their predeccessor was and with the exception of a fuel pump and PCM tuning issues, the car has been stone cold reliable.
A) MTI's packages were very secretive as to their specs
B) Several guys in the MFBA (PSJ included) had experience with GTP's products and had great results with them primarily on LT1's though.
C) Price, Craig was dirt cheap (at that time considering the LS1 was a new thing at the time, $500 for the steel billet cam I got from him was a bargain).
Now, I don't think I have all the latest in springs like you guys speak of and I believe I have 2.02 intake valves. Generally I have the 1st generation of Craig's LS1 heads and cam setup. I'm making decent power (383rwhp and 385lbs-ft torque) on a stock bottom end, I did balance and blueprint it though, but it is still 346 cubes. I haven't had any problems with the springs being 918's or whatever their predeccessor was and with the exception of a fuel pump and PCM tuning issues, the car has been stone cold reliable.
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 94
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From: Houston, TX
Re: GTP or MTI Stage 2 heads? I have made a decision.
I am getting GTP Stage 2 5.3L heads, small valves, single spring comp 918s.
Also getting FLP headers with Y pipe.
This will be installed in a Houston shop, but not in one of the pricier places.
[ January 18, 2002: Message edited by: 2K1_4mula ]</p>
I am getting GTP Stage 2 5.3L heads, small valves, single spring comp 918s.
Also getting FLP headers with Y pipe.
This will be installed in a Houston shop, but not in one of the pricier places.
[ January 18, 2002: Message edited by: 2K1_4mula ]</p>
TECH Senior Member
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Re: GTP or MTI Stage 2 heads? I would go with a double spring for sure and a 224/224 600 lift cam on 114LSA <img src="graemlins/gr_devil.gif" border="0" alt="[devil]" /> Stage 2 head with 11.2:1 compression
Port the heads to match the lift and you are laughing <img src="gr_stretch.gif" border="0"> The springs will handle the lift no problem and you will need to check your piston to valve clearance <img src="gr_stretch.gif" border="0">
Chris
Port the heads to match the lift and you are laughing <img src="gr_stretch.gif" border="0"> The springs will handle the lift no problem and you will need to check your piston to valve clearance <img src="gr_stretch.gif" border="0">
Chris
