Debating on ditching the ported ls1 heads for some afr or terminator heads, cam for a ms4, maybe a ud pully, finally the ls6 intake to a fast. But might just save and get that new gm block and have a monster built 454 or maybe 500 ci engine and just go na all the way.

 

i've never wanted to de-modd my car, i've always wanted to make it faster. really my car has never lost driveability or got worse with any mod. really the only thing that seems different in daily driving is the louder exhaust (and a ton more power) my 9" from DLS is dead quiet. my LS7 clutch feels just like stock (because it kinda is a stock clutch!) and my calibrator did a great job with my tune so i have no driveability issues, and i have a rather large cam to boot! and i have no valvetrain noise from the cam so other then the lope and louder exhaust it all seems the same!

but i do have to agree, everyonce in a while i'll take out my parents '99 30th anniversary TA and it being bone stock, it is nice sometimes to just pop the T's off and cruise effortlessly...

 

Guys - this is exactly what I had hoped to see. Sometimes you read a thread about XXX cam or YYY heads in the context of daily driver. Often, its only the experienced folks on this board who might realize that those mods are fantastic for a single purpose 1/4 mile car, but absolutely ruin driveability in the range where it's used 95% of the time.

I agree with the above post that you shouldn't be scared to mod. I thought a thread like this could be worth a great deal to us newbie who still have a largely stock car and are ready to jump in head first.

Keep 'em coming!

Hammer

 

The reason I started that thread (in the LS2/LS7/L92 section) was (in hope) to get to some "no-hype" serious daily-driving experiences. I think if you read through the entire thread (not just my post) you will see a common message develop. I was very happy to see some real and candid feed-back about the pit-falls of taking it too far and/or not having a realistic goal for a daily driver.

Pat basically hit it on the head and I have said for a long time we rely too much on the "cam" in our plans. We get "drunk" on the mod bug and when sobber-up we have to live with what we did...

I was/am surprised that thread grew to the number of post it has...

to the thinkers out there...

 

Cam overlap is both the devil and your friend, depending on your point of view. In a naturally aspirated application, the correct amount of overlap (and it's relationship to TDC) can make big power gains. But when you start getting more than 0 degrees of overlap at .050" (for an NA 346), you begin to rely more heavily on the exhaust for gains. The more overlap you have past this point, the better your exhaust needs to be...back pressure needs to be at an absolute minimum.

That's the rub...
To get these big (popular) cams to work well, we need exhausts that scavenge like crazy. That typically means LOUD. That's why a T-Rex cammed car runs poorly with cats and closed exhaust. Now if we put in a cam with less overlap, the motor becomes less sensitive to back pressure. This is one of the reasons why the Thunder Racing CheaTR cam works so well with all exhausts. It is very in-sensitive to back pressure. The problem with widening LSAs too much is that you run the risk of closing the intake valve too late, which can kill dynamic compression or take the motor out of the powerband that the factory intake was designed for.

When de-modding, cam selection is critical, but that doesn't mean you have to choose a "wimpy" cam to sound and act like stock. It's all about matching the cam to your components. I made 411 rwhp with factory exhaust manifolds, cats and catback. Unless you popped the hood and saw the FAST intake or AFR heads, you wouldn't have been able to detect that it was anything but stock. I miss that combination sometimes. It was pure stealth.

Maybe I'll paint my Mamo ported FAST factory black, shave the AFR emblems off my heads, and put the factory exhaust manifolds back on (ported of course). I bet I could exceed 420 rwhp and still keep the stock manners. Hmmm...sounds like another challenge!

 

I read but the first page in this thread.

My comments, are this:

Ruin these cars, yes many people have. By cutting pointed edges underneath the car into rounded ones to conserve mere ounces if that. The extreme weight reduction I think is what ruins these cars. Taking bumper supports, and banging here and there that is what ruins them.

The heads cam packages, if anything I love the way my car vibrates with my cam, and wouldn't trade it for stock, no way.

I drive my car everyday lately, and I could do it forever. A buddy of mine drove his cammed fbody for a year everyday he loved it.

I just think that there are different strokes for different folks. Me, I love the lope of the cam vibrating the car. It brings a smile to my car everytime I get into the car.

As for the sound, I had duals, GMMG, all those loud exhausts. I went back to a stock exhaust and have no problems at all. It's quiet and sounds quiet nice. If anything, I will be runnning back to tru duals, but throwing cats on and running pipes out the back.

Valvetrain noise, can't escape that.

The chattering clutch, sure if you get the cheaper clutches made for these cars. As I've heard the Textralia doesn't chatter at all and drives better than stock.

All in all, it really depends on the person. I'm 19, I love the way my car vibrates, and smells, and drives, ad everything. I wouldn't change a thing. If I was 40 years old, and drove 25 miles to work each day I sure as hell wouldn't drive my car everyday being 40. It's also a large age difference in what people want with their cars.

That's just my opinion

 

Patrick - not to get off subject, but do you think there is more power to be had by playing with the IVO and EVC points on a cam similar to the CheaTR? I was trying to come up with something along those lines and arrived at this: 218/234 .605/.598 115 + 2. This should still net -4 overlap at .050, 42* IVC and 54* EVO for a generous exhaust duration. Even installed straight up, it seems this should make acceptable power down low, with increased potential over 5000 rpms. I would image this should work with stock exhaust manifolds and cats, but also respond well to headers if desired.

 

Just buy a nice DD car such as a civic, accord, etc.

It`s the best mod that i`ve done to my car. I just dont worry about street manners, if the noise, chatter a cam lope are begining to grow old, i just take my civic, until i miss my camaro, and so on.

 

Got to agree with this. Substitute Hummer for Civic.

 

Or Hummer with E55 AMG

 

or E55 AMG for a c6

I obviously haven't done much with my car, but even the catback affects it. It sounds great most the time, but has a tenancy to rattle when it is really cold out before the car has a chance to warm up.

This thread gives some good insight to what mods will simply go to far.

 

I don't want to de-mod mine, but I am sick of all the bull that comes with a modified car.

I think I'm gonna park it and buy an AUDI or something else until I feel like dealing with it again. I have too much of my money, and my and other peoples time in it to look back now. I think I may buy a stock 6 speed Z in a couple years.

 

i always wondered about what some of u guys think about ur modded LSX...i have a 224/224 .581 .581 112lsa cam w/ mac mids and a off road Y..AND random tech exhaust.....so yea that can get exasperating(especially b/c i have a little rasp)..but i have been around a bunch of other camaros, T/A, vettes, Stangs etc....and their sound DWARFS mine...all i have to say is THANK GOD FOR THAT 6TH GEAR!!!....i do considerable amount of highway drivin and even w/ my mods its still quiet enough for me just cruisin down the road(in 6th)...infact i had a buddy of mine after a night of rompin and racin, tell me that he couldnt believe how gentle it could be when im just normal drivin..LOVE THESE CARS

 

That couldn't be a better point. I'm not able to get a nice DD yet, but I just bought a laser turbo for a winter car. I drive that 6 days a week, take the Camaro out once in a while. Every time I get in the Camaro, it's like a brand new car again, I love it.

 

I agree with this, i bought myself a beater dodge dakota, it gets about 18 mpg, has 4wd, and can carry quite a bit of stuff... so I dont mind driving it. When i feel like it, i can hop in my car, and it feels like a badass ride even witn only 327 rwhp 354 rwtq. however that is about to change as I'm going to a heads/cam/90-90 setup so it should be a lil faster.

i've always had a 'toy' that i played with when i felt like it, and a daily driver, it just works out for the bettter.. yea its a lil more money. but when the 'toy' breaks u can still drive... a daily driven car that you race can spell disaster if you dont have money readily available to fix it or to make it bulletproof.

my old camaro had 400 rwhp (heads/cam/3.73 gears) got about 30mpg on the highway, sounded good at idle, bucked a lil at low speeds, but I didnt mind it, it was a badass car and when I nailed it that was all that mattered, it was loud at WOT (longtubes, no cats, dynomaxx muffy) but very tame when driviing normally unless i went over 3k.

 

My first mods were a nice little H/C package that included ported LS1 heads and a 212/216 Lunati cam. It made around 360 rwhp/rwtq. I loved the way it drove but, of course, I always wanted more (in boating, this is called "2 foot disease"). Well a ticking started and got louder, upon inspection, the cam was chewed up. I went with the AFR 205, 224/228 114 setup.

After I installed that, I was suprised that the valvetrain noise continued. At this point, I tried 3 different kinds of rockers, but no help. I firgured the chewed up cam must have put shavings into the rod bearings, so I had a used LS6 shortblock installed, with the same AFR setup. Surprise again, still a lot of valvetrain noise.

Figuring, the XER lobes of the cam were making the noise, I went with a VHP 228/232 112 cam with only .551 lift, but used 1.8 roller rockers. Still valvetrain noise. Next, I went back to the 224/228 (because I didn't like the 112 LSA) but installed Morel lifters. Still valvetrain noise.

I realize now, the valvetrain noise is the nature of the beast, but I can't take it anymore. I just can't. Next up, I'm going back to a Lunati (55003) cam that has a much less agressive lobe and lift (but I may reuse the 1.8 rockers again). I know I'll be giving up about 40 rwhp/rwtq but it sucks driving around hating how your car sounds.

My guess is that I've spent close to $15,000 in all this. On the good side though, I've blown a lot of challengers away on the road, learned how to rebuild an engine, and have a lot of cool tools!

 

I bought my Formula as a DD because I already had my GTO's for weekend/hobby cars. I had no intentions of modding my car, but started because not all is well with these cars stock. That is a major reason for modding that is sometimes forgotten. The up and down shift points, TC lock-up points, slow shifting, and heavy stock converter with 2.73 gears made my car feel like a slug around town.

My first mods had to do with the drivetrain and greatly improved daily driveability - that's why I run a mild torque converter. A lid & catback is de rigeur, and a ported TB is an awesome DD mod. Bilsteins w/stock springs improved the ride.

Taking it to the track led to a few more things. I will probably do headers and maybe a cam, but it will be with the goal of enhancing, not degrading, daily driveability while picking up gains at the track. I love my car every time I get into it and don't want that to change.

The point is that mods can make your car a better DD if chosen carefully.

 

It's been real interesting reading all of the posts in this thread. I've had this car since 2001, figure I've put $15k or better in the car, actually paid the car off, and just keep spending money on it. But this past summer, I barely drove the car. Not that I didn't want to drive the car, it just becomes a hassle with the smell, the noise, the chatter of the clutch, the noise from the valvetrain, the car won't idle down at stoplights. Honestly, (and I would never tell my wife this, I've secretly thought of selling it, but I won't). I'm a CPA and I used to drive it to clients offices. I learned that if people aren't gearheads, they don't get it at all and I'm sure they ask if this old man who does their accounting and tax work is ever going to grow up. So, I just don't drive it to clients anymore. For primarily that reason, the car sat in the garage during the summer. Wife hates the car cause of the noise and smell. But, I go out in the garage, look at it, keep putting more money into it, race it occasionally, go to the car shows here in town or the Dream Cruise every year and I love it. Don't know that I would spend alot more money for different heads or cam cause I found out the tuning for these is a pain in the ***. Mine runs good now with the occasional buck or jerk. I can understand why a lot of you are going back to stock just to enjoy the car. I remember when it was new and I just started pouring money into it. It was fun, but it lost its daily drivability. So now I drive it on a weekend now and then, otherwise it's just a garage queen.

 

Wow, that's some stark honesty!

 

I sold my old Z06 to my dad. We work in the same office and I drove the car today for the first time in quite a while. Wow, what a difference. The car has TSP LS6 heads and a 224/228 cam and it drives like a stock Z06 compared to my LS1 Rx-7. Now, the LS1 Rx-7 will never be a Z06, I realize that, but seriously, I can't imagine someone ever complaining about driving a car with a small cam tuned correctly.