Stage 3 Heads Overkill on stock shortblock?
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TECH Resident
Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Houston
Stage 3 Heads Overkill on stock shortblock? I recently purchased a set of gtp stage 3 heads that flowed:
.2025 - 158
.3011 - 209.9
.4012 - 262.4
.4512 - 280.3
.5004 - 295.7
.5603 - 305.4
.5882 - 313.2
.5948 - 317.1
.6021 - 316.3
Yes, these were figs old heads. I currently have 2 cam's in my possesion. A comp grind 228/232 .529 .537 & the TR 224/224. In my opinion since the heads flow so well my car would make more power w/ the higher lift of the TR cam, but I could be totally wrong. I want to shift around 6500. Knowing me I will one day go to a 382 motor of some sort. I want to be in the 120+ range in the 1/4 through macs w/ orp and ls6 intake w/ all the bolt on's. Would I make better power w/ a set of stage 2 heads since the stage 3's were designed for a big bore motor? thanx in adavance.
AJ
<img src="graemlins/fluffy.gif" border="0" alt="[Fluffy]" />
.2025 - 158
.3011 - 209.9
.4012 - 262.4
.4512 - 280.3
.5004 - 295.7
.5603 - 305.4
.5882 - 313.2
.5948 - 317.1
.6021 - 316.3
Yes, these were figs old heads. I currently have 2 cam's in my possesion. A comp grind 228/232 .529 .537 & the TR 224/224. In my opinion since the heads flow so well my car would make more power w/ the higher lift of the TR cam, but I could be totally wrong. I want to shift around 6500. Knowing me I will one day go to a 382 motor of some sort. I want to be in the 120+ range in the 1/4 through macs w/ orp and ls6 intake w/ all the bolt on's. Would I make better power w/ a set of stage 2 heads since the stage 3's were designed for a big bore motor? thanx in adavance.
AJ
<img src="graemlins/fluffy.gif" border="0" alt="[Fluffy]" />
Re: Stage 3 Heads Overkill on stock shortblock? Throw in the 224 and stage 3 already! With some weight mods I think you'll hit your numbers. If not, let me drive it and see what I can do <img src="gr_grin.gif" border="0">
Re: Stage 3 Heads Overkill on stock shortblock? Those flow numbers look almost exactly like mine! I am swapping to a higher lift cam with more duration under the curve to take full advantage of this. Comp XE-R 226/226, .585/.585, 113LSA. This would be a nice step up from the TR224 and would idle the same or better because of its faster ramps (less total duration at .006 than the TR224).
__________________
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
Re: Stage 3 Heads Overkill on stock shortblock? I'd be interested in getting a little more info on that cam, as well, Patrick. Are you planning to run dual springs w/ the aggressiveness of the lobes?
__________________
Re: Stage 3 Heads Overkill on stock shortblock? Guys, the cam would probably be even faster on a 112 LSA...I was just trying to be a little conservative and keep some idle quality. The 113 LSA will work very well on the gas.
FWIW, Darth Vetter's 346 hydraulic cammed LS6 Vette runs a Comp 224/228 cam on a 113LSA and make 447 rwhp and Judson's 418 makes over 550 rwhp and also runs a 113 LSA so it can't be too bad.
I'm running Crane Dual springs #99893. 1.460 OD
At my 1.825 installed height, they measured 145# seat and 360 at .585 lift. Should work well with the new cam.
The motor should make peak power around 6300-6400 and carry it well to 7000 rpms (if I were crazy enough to do that on a regular basis). Moving it to a 112 LSA might bring the power peak down 50-100 rpms, but probably not enough to notice. I'll keep the better idle since this is the car I drive every day to work...1500 miles a month baby!
[ February 05, 2002: Message edited by: Patrick G ]</p>
FWIW, Darth Vetter's 346 hydraulic cammed LS6 Vette runs a Comp 224/228 cam on a 113LSA and make 447 rwhp and Judson's 418 makes over 550 rwhp and also runs a 113 LSA so it can't be too bad.
I'm running Crane Dual springs #99893. 1.460 OD
At my 1.825 installed height, they measured 145# seat and 360 at .585 lift. Should work well with the new cam.
The motor should make peak power around 6300-6400 and carry it well to 7000 rpms (if I were crazy enough to do that on a regular basis). Moving it to a 112 LSA might bring the power peak down 50-100 rpms, but probably not enough to notice. I'll keep the better idle since this is the car I drive every day to work...1500 miles a month baby!
[ February 05, 2002: Message edited by: Patrick G ]</p>
__________________
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
Trending Topics
Re: Stage 3 Heads Overkill on stock shortblock? Oops, you're right...I fixed it...sorry...typing too fast, LOL!
__________________
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
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TECH Addict
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,340
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From: Fort Worth,TX
Re: Stage 3 Heads Overkill on stock shortblock? Keep the heads and go with the TR224 cam it will work better because of the lift.IMO you should keep the heads because there is no such thing as your heads flowing to much but rather not enough motor under the heads.Believe it will work fine and if you do go 382 hey even better with stage 3 or forced induction.That is just me though.
TECH Addict
Joined: Nov 2001
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From: College Station, Tx
Re: Stage 3 Heads Overkill on stock shortblock? My contention is that lSA by itself is irrelevant though - it only matters within a context where the lobes are the same.
LSA by itself means nothing, only through it's effect in valve events (and thus overlap and compression) does it change anything.
But if I take a 224/228 lobe and a 224/224 lobe I may actually have to go a couple of degrees wider on the 224/228 cam to keep the same overlap EVC/IVO events as on the 224/224 (and change the advance/retard also). As the lobes get more different so do the changes in valve events.
When you are talking about on specific set of lobes the LSA number is a good way to talk about how you are arranging those lobes on a cam, but when you start changing those lobes the LSA becomes less of a comparator between the two camshafts.
As for the two cams you have - I would go with the TR 224/224 cam for simple drivability reasons.
Chris
LSA by itself means nothing, only through it's effect in valve events (and thus overlap and compression) does it change anything.
But if I take a 224/228 lobe and a 224/224 lobe I may actually have to go a couple of degrees wider on the 224/228 cam to keep the same overlap EVC/IVO events as on the 224/224 (and change the advance/retard also). As the lobes get more different so do the changes in valve events.
When you are talking about on specific set of lobes the LSA number is a good way to talk about how you are arranging those lobes on a cam, but when you start changing those lobes the LSA becomes less of a comparator between the two camshafts.
As for the two cams you have - I would go with the TR 224/224 cam for simple drivability reasons.
Chris
Staging Lane
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 54
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From: Houston
Re: Stage 3 Heads Overkill on stock shortblock? What was the intake port volume in these new heads? I believe the stock port measures about 200 cc. If the port is too big, velocity and port response will be sluggish at lower rpm's, taking too long to get the intake charge moving. Of coure it all depends on the intended use of the motor, street, race, or a combination of both.
Paul J.
Paul J.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 766
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From: Houston
Re: Stage 3 Heads Overkill on stock shortblock? Thanx for the replies guys, craig at gtp actually is doing some work on the heads for me. The heads were ported for a big bore motor. He is going to cut down the valves or something like that, something he hasn't tried before, so i figured what the hell...it's free <img src="gr_grin.gif" border="0"> I'll let ya'll know how it turns out!
AJ
AJ
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Joined: Nov 2001
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Re: Stage 3 Heads Overkill on stock shortblock? I would go with the 224 cam as well. The other cam has too low lift IMO <img src="gr_stretch.gif" border="0">
Were the cc's opened up for a 4.1 bore on those heads?
Just curious as to how that would impact everything
Cheers,
Chris
Were the cc's opened up for a 4.1 bore on those heads?
Just curious as to how that would impact everything
Cheers,
Chris
