Single or Split pattern cam?
Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: Dec 2001
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From: Boynton Beach FL
Single or Split pattern cam? I have seen alot of people getting good result with single pattern cams vs the split cams, i plan on going cammed soon and was wondering which route i should go
[ February 12, 2002: Message edited by: 01 NBM DEMON ]</p>
[ February 12, 2002: Message edited by: 01 NBM DEMON ]</p>
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Dec 2001
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From: CA
Re: Single or Split pattern cam? [quote]Originally posted by 01 NBM DEMON:
<strong>I have seen alot of people getting good result with single pattern cams vs the split cams, i plan on going cammed soon and was wondering which route i should go
[ February 12, 2002: Message edited by: 01 NBM DEMON ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
You're going to have to give us more information than that. What will the motor be used for? What kind of heads? Does it need to pass emissions? Getting custom programming? etc.
<strong>I have seen alot of people getting good result with single pattern cams vs the split cams, i plan on going cammed soon and was wondering which route i should go
[ February 12, 2002: Message edited by: 01 NBM DEMON ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
You're going to have to give us more information than that. What will the motor be used for? What kind of heads? Does it need to pass emissions? Getting custom programming? etc.
Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: Dec 2001
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From: Boynton Beach FL
Re: Single or Split pattern cam? stock heads, mabye NOS in the future i am selling my current kit, so basically just motor for a while,no worries about emissions, custom tuning if neccessary will be fine.
TECH Resident
Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Houston, Tx
Re: Single or Split pattern cam? [quote]Originally posted by 01 NBM DEMON:
<strong>stock heads, mabye NOS in the future i am selling my current kit, so basically just motor for a while,no worries about emissions, custom tuning if neccessary will be fine.</strong><hr></blockquote>
If you are gonna spray it I'd go split.
<strong>stock heads, mabye NOS in the future i am selling my current kit, so basically just motor for a while,no worries about emissions, custom tuning if neccessary will be fine.</strong><hr></blockquote>
If you are gonna spray it I'd go split.
Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: Dec 2001
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From: Boynton Beach FL
Re: Single or Split pattern cam? i don't plan on spraying for a while so this will be all motor for quite some time, so i am not concerned about the big gains on the NOS just motor
TECH Addict
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From: new england
Re: Single or Split pattern cam? 01 Demon, if any body should be asking advice its us! Why is your car running 116mph+? I think we can learn from you, it looks like all you have is exhaust and minor mods.Whats up? <img src="gr_eek2.gif" border="0">
Re: Single or Split pattern cam? The only two 9-second all-motor LS1s have single pattern cams in them. Judson and Colonel's cars.
[quote]If you are gonna spray it I'd go split<hr></blockquote>
There is more effort involved than just suggesting something like this. Unless you are planning on a BIG amount of nitrous, possibly 200 rwhp doses or more, then don't worry about changing your cam specs to suit the nitrous. Anything less than large amounts of nitrous can be just considered as "icing" on the cake. Concentrate on making the motor run strong on its own first.
Tony
[quote]If you are gonna spray it I'd go split<hr></blockquote>
There is more effort involved than just suggesting something like this. Unless you are planning on a BIG amount of nitrous, possibly 200 rwhp doses or more, then don't worry about changing your cam specs to suit the nitrous. Anything less than large amounts of nitrous can be just considered as "icing" on the cake. Concentrate on making the motor run strong on its own first.
Tony
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Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: Dec 2001
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From: Boynton Beach FL
Re: Single or Split pattern cam? i definitly want the motor to run strong first, that is why i stated i don't plan on spraying again for a while, the 116+ traps where achieved on just the bolt ons in my sig with a little weight reduction.
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Re: Single or Split pattern cam? How about getting the G5 Cam and trying it out for everyone. <img src="gr_stretch.gif" border="0">
That's excellent MPH for bolt-ons. Where do you run at? Are you sure it's not downhill. LOL! <img src="gr_grin.gif" border="0">
I'm curious why you changed the SLP 20TL muffler to a Magnaflow. Did you see a gain from it?
Scott
That's excellent MPH for bolt-ons. Where do you run at? Are you sure it's not downhill. LOL! <img src="gr_grin.gif" border="0">
I'm curious why you changed the SLP 20TL muffler to a Magnaflow. Did you see a gain from it?
Scott
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Dallas,Texas
Re: Single or Split pattern cam? Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 103
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From: Boynton Beach FL
Re: Single or Split pattern cam? i bought the catback used, and came with the maganflow muffler, i usually race at moroso motorsports park in west palm beach fl., i recently came from brdenton from a vette vs. viper vs f-body shootout and pulled an 11.41 on an 85 shot on a NOS dry kit with a borrowed 12 bolt with 4.10s and 28x10.5x15 et drags with about 10lbs of air in em.
D(irecto)r Pepper
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,952
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From: Houston Raceway Park...in TEXAS.
Re: Single or Split pattern cam? In general, I have not seen LS1 dual pattern cammed cars put down KILLER numbers at the track.
Hence I do not recommend them.
Throw in the split pattern probs with idle roughness. And I HAVE to recommend the single pattern cams. (this is pertaining only to LS1's)
If you had the time and money to experiment with cam after cam after cam.... you would find the perfect cam. Probably it would be some type of split pattern cam. One that is perfectly mated to YOUR heads intake and exhaust ports. But who has the time or money to do a test like that? Not me.
So I use what has been PROVEN to work, time and time again. And on LS1's, that has been proven to me at least, to be cams of the "single pattern" variety.
[ February 13, 2002: Message edited by: Raughammer ]</p>
Hence I do not recommend them.
Throw in the split pattern probs with idle roughness. And I HAVE to recommend the single pattern cams. (this is pertaining only to LS1's)
If you had the time and money to experiment with cam after cam after cam.... you would find the perfect cam. Probably it would be some type of split pattern cam. One that is perfectly mated to YOUR heads intake and exhaust ports. But who has the time or money to do a test like that? Not me.
So I use what has been PROVEN to work, time and time again. And on LS1's, that has been proven to me at least, to be cams of the "single pattern" variety.
[ February 13, 2002: Message edited by: Raughammer ]</p>
FormerVendor
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,065
Likes: 6
From: Houston, Tx.
Re: Single or Split pattern cam? Nineball,
Actually the orange SAM SS has a split profile in it as do most cars in that power range. I don't know where the idea that we have a single pattern started? I've seen it somewhere else as well? <img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[Burnout]" />
However I do agree with you and Raughammer on the better running characteristics of single patterns in most of these street driven smaller cammed cars. The computer is just much more happier with eth single and the power even seems just as nice. PArt of this is the great exhasut ports that Chevy designed into these 15 degree heads. The 15 degree angle really helps the exhaust as much as or more than the intake. On a power adder car with a SC or NOS the split profiles would probably make more power as you'll have an unatural amount of exhaust to deal with given the same intake duration.
Actually the orange SAM SS has a split profile in it as do most cars in that power range. I don't know where the idea that we have a single pattern started? I've seen it somewhere else as well? <img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[Burnout]" />
However I do agree with you and Raughammer on the better running characteristics of single patterns in most of these street driven smaller cammed cars. The computer is just much more happier with eth single and the power even seems just as nice. PArt of this is the great exhasut ports that Chevy designed into these 15 degree heads. The 15 degree angle really helps the exhaust as much as or more than the intake. On a power adder car with a SC or NOS the split profiles would probably make more power as you'll have an unatural amount of exhaust to deal with given the same intake duration.
Re: Single or Split pattern cam? Yeah, there are actually some engine builders out there that recommend a reverse split cam, like a 230/224 111LSA cam. Brian Ebert (who builds Al Corda's stock eliminator) is a big fan of reverse splits for LS1s. He says the exhaust is so good, we need to concentrate more on intake timing than exhaust. He feels that too much exhaust duration hurts a naturally aspirated LS1. Again, this only applies to LS1s.
For me, it was all about the most power for the best street manners. If a 226/226 cam would have the same idle and driveability as a 224/228 cam, I'd rather get a little more intake duration to make more power.
Intake duration...GOOD <img src="gr_grin.gif" border="0">
For me, it was all about the most power for the best street manners. If a 226/226 cam would have the same idle and driveability as a 224/228 cam, I'd rather get a little more intake duration to make more power.
Intake duration...GOOD <img src="gr_grin.gif" border="0">
__________________
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
D(irecto)r Pepper
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,952
Likes: 0
From: Houston Raceway Park...in TEXAS.
Re: Single or Split pattern cam? [quote]Originally posted by Patrick G:
<strong>.
. If a 226/226 cam would have the same idle and driveability as a 224/228 cam, I'd rather get a little more intake duration to make more power.
Intake duration...GOOD <img src="gr_grin.gif" border="0"> </strong><hr></blockquote>
I have been saying this for YEARS!
I hope folks are reading this thread and putting it in their heads.
p.s., so what cam specs "is" the SAM car using? (big *** solid) <img src="gr_grin.gif" border="0">
campbell
<strong>.
. If a 226/226 cam would have the same idle and driveability as a 224/228 cam, I'd rather get a little more intake duration to make more power.
Intake duration...GOOD <img src="gr_grin.gif" border="0"> </strong><hr></blockquote>
I have been saying this for YEARS!
I hope folks are reading this thread and putting it in their heads.
p.s., so what cam specs "is" the SAM car using? (big *** solid) <img src="gr_grin.gif" border="0">
campbell
Re: Single or Split pattern cam? SAM SS cam specs: Solid Roller 260/264 @ .050, .670/.640, 113LSA installed at 111 intake c/l
__________________
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
FormerVendor
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,065
Likes: 6
From: Houston, Tx.
Re: Single or Split pattern cam? Raughammer I think your pretty much right about these street cams in the LS1s. Our cam is on our website I think but it's about 260/265 with higher .600s lift. <img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[Burnout]" />
D(irecto)r Pepper
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,952
Likes: 0
From: Houston Raceway Park...in TEXAS.
Re: Single or Split pattern cam? *THUNK* (the sound of me hitting the floor after seeing Judsons cam specs)
Whoo hee! What a cam.
Points of interest for the newbies. A solid cam has to use larger adertised numbers than a hydrualic cam. This is inherent in the design. The "lash" will significantly reduce the actual "numbers" that the motor "sees".
(not to mention lifter pump up/bleed down)
With that being said:
Hmmm.... More lift on the intake but less duration than the exhaust which has more duration but less lift. (Things that make you go, "Hmmmmm"...)
Eric. My comments are directly aimed at the "street variety racer". No way can a single pattern cam cover EVERY combo. But in a general range. (the one that most everyone on here uses) The singles seem to work well...VERY well.
Take care fellas.
John "I wanna go RACE" Campbell
Whoo hee! What a cam.
Points of interest for the newbies. A solid cam has to use larger adertised numbers than a hydrualic cam. This is inherent in the design. The "lash" will significantly reduce the actual "numbers" that the motor "sees".
(not to mention lifter pump up/bleed down)
With that being said:
Hmmm.... More lift on the intake but less duration than the exhaust which has more duration but less lift. (Things that make you go, "Hmmmmm"...)
Eric. My comments are directly aimed at the "street variety racer". No way can a single pattern cam cover EVERY combo. But in a general range. (the one that most everyone on here uses) The singles seem to work well...VERY well.
Take care fellas.
John "I wanna go RACE" Campbell