Missing the old sound of the LT1?
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Staging Lane
Joined: Dec 2001
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From: NoVA
Missing the old sound of the LT1? I've really missed the old sound of the previous small block chevy. I've been doing some research, and I remember reading that the LS1'a firing order was set so that that engine idled smoother and was quieter. I don't like the LS1's sound, but it's an all around better design than the traditional small block. So here's my theory. Return to the old firing order! I'm seriously thinking of having a custom LS1 cam ground, but with the lobe patterns of a tradition small block. Just to find out what type of power loss, or gains I would get, I would use the exact lift and duration numbers of a stock LS1 cam. The next problem is getting the fuel injectors, and spark timing right. I think that will an after market computer like the Holly unit, or even if (and thats a BIG if) I can reprogram a stock PCM to fire the way I want it too. Anyway it would make for an interesting experiment. I know the firing order is at least partly resonsible for the raspy tinny sound of the LS1. Anybody up for helping out in the way of research?
Re: Missing the old sound of the LT1? You can go through all that trouble if you'd like, but you won't take the wussy sound out of the LS1. The aluminum block plays a big part in how the motor sounds. Cast Iron blocks absorb less exhaust vibrations in which makes the car sound meaner, deeper, louder, etc....The LS1 being aluminum will always absord more vibration, and not sound "as good" as the tradition SBC's. However, I TOTALLY agree with you. I'd trade the sound of my LT1 over my LS1 anyday.
Josh
Josh
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Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Mississauga, Ontario
Re: Missing the old sound of the LT1? Tell you what. If anyone misses the LT1 sound that much, you can give me your LS1 and take my car! I'd rather have a quiet car and go faster, than to have a cooler sounding car and go slower! <img src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" border="0">
Seriously though, it sounds like a lot of work for not much gains. And Josh is right, the aluminum block really does play a big part in the sound of the LS1. Wouldn't it suck to go through all that work only to find it's not sounding much different?
Seriously though, it sounds like a lot of work for not much gains. And Josh is right, the aluminum block really does play a big part in the sound of the LS1. Wouldn't it suck to go through all that work only to find it's not sounding much different?
Re: Missing the old sound of the LT1? 4.6L Mustang GTs sound pretty nice also, very similar to the 5.0s
How are you going to change the firing order without having a custom crankshaft built that places the pistons at the proper TDC in the new pattern? You aren't.
All bark and no bite. I'd rather have the silent dog with a huge jaw and razor sharp teeth.
Tony
How are you going to change the firing order without having a custom crankshaft built that places the pistons at the proper TDC in the new pattern? You aren't.
All bark and no bite. I'd rather have the silent dog with a huge jaw and razor sharp teeth.
Tony
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From: Troy, AL
Re: Missing the old sound of the LT1? Yep, new crankshaft too.
Here is a much cheaper idea. Call MTI, have a 382 all bore with a healthy cam built. That shouldn't sound so wussy. <img src="gr_images/icons/cool.gif" border="0">
Here is a much cheaper idea. Call MTI, have a 382 all bore with a healthy cam built. That shouldn't sound so wussy. <img src="gr_images/icons/cool.gif" border="0">
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From: I-L-L-I-N-O-I-S
Re: Missing the old sound of the LT1? Just like the other guy said its all in the cast iron-block and different firing order. What I really don't like is how LS1's tend to get kind of high-pitched from 3,000 rpm and up when not at full wide-open throttle. When I had my old Vigilante 2800 converter, the higher revs during normal throttle(2500+ rpm) made my SLP LM sound AWFUL! Because the engine was not under much load it whined like a baby in the mid to high rpms just cruising around town. Only sounded good in the lower rpms or at WOT. But I now actually really do like the sound of my LS1 with the GMMG Chambered Exhaust. Sounds like a tough muscle car to me. It is definitely deeper and not as high-pitched sounding.
Mike
[ February 15, 2002: Message edited by: 2000LS1Z28 ]
[ February 15, 2002: Message edited by: 2000LS1Z28 ]</p>
Mike
[ February 15, 2002: Message edited by: 2000LS1Z28 ]
[ February 15, 2002: Message edited by: 2000LS1Z28 ]</p>
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Houston / Dallas
Re: Missing the old sound of the LT1? Personally I think my LS1 sounds mean as F@#$ing hell, what are you guys complaining about?
[ February 15, 2002: Message edited by: TrahnZam WS6 ]</p>
[ February 15, 2002: Message edited by: TrahnZam WS6 ]</p>
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From: Schiller Park, ILL Member: #317
Re: Missing the old sound of the LT1? While it’s true that LT1s do sound deeper and meaner (as a rule), you can really make your LS1 sound great with the right exhaust combo.
Plus, once you start getting into engine mods it’s a whole new sound. The two absolute best sounding LS1s I’ve ever heard had these combos:
1) SLP Loudmouth, gutted stock cats (no ORP rasp this way), stock manifolds, and a heads/cam package
2) SLP 2OTL, FLPs w/ ORPs, and a heads/cam package
These two cars sound very different, but each in it’s own way sounds better than any other LS1 I’ve heard, and better than some (many) LT1s, IMO.
Bigger exhaust valves and longer cam duration go a long way to improve exhaust sound. Plus, it’s all about exhaust system combo. Some catbacks need cats (or gutted cat shells) to sound good, and some sound better with ORPs. And to those who think ORPs sound the same as gutted stock cats on a stock Y-pipe, I can tell you from personal experience that this is not true. I have tried both.
Plus, once you start getting into engine mods it’s a whole new sound. The two absolute best sounding LS1s I’ve ever heard had these combos:
1) SLP Loudmouth, gutted stock cats (no ORP rasp this way), stock manifolds, and a heads/cam package
2) SLP 2OTL, FLPs w/ ORPs, and a heads/cam package
These two cars sound very different, but each in it’s own way sounds better than any other LS1 I’ve heard, and better than some (many) LT1s, IMO.
Bigger exhaust valves and longer cam duration go a long way to improve exhaust sound. Plus, it’s all about exhaust system combo. Some catbacks need cats (or gutted cat shells) to sound good, and some sound better with ORPs. And to those who think ORPs sound the same as gutted stock cats on a stock Y-pipe, I can tell you from personal experience that this is not true. I have tried both.
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Re: Missing the old sound of the LT1? Try running Macs/orp through dual pipes with Flows and dumped before the axle, it sounds a lot like a mustang but deeper/louder. It has that almost "hollow" growl in low to mid rpm. Ask Whistler about it, he has that setup (He is on the board).
Chris <img src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
Chris <img src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
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From: Chicago, IL
Re: Missing the old sound of the LT1? [quote]Originally posted by RPM WS6:
<strong>
1) SLP Loudmouth, gutted stock cats (no ORP rasp this way), stock manifolds, and a heads/cam package
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Hehe, this sounds like my combo!
The LS1 sounds mean as hell with some good longtubes, cats and a wide open exhaust. It actually sounds a lot like a NASCAR engine.
<strong>
1) SLP Loudmouth, gutted stock cats (no ORP rasp this way), stock manifolds, and a heads/cam package
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Hehe, this sounds like my combo!
The LS1 sounds mean as hell with some good longtubes, cats and a wide open exhaust. It actually sounds a lot like a NASCAR engine.
Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Schiller Park, ILL Member: #317
Re: Missing the old sound of the LT1? [quote]Originally posted by Jake99SS:
<strong>
Hehe, this sounds like my combo!
</strong><hr></blockquote>
It should <img src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" border="0"> It was your car I was referring too <img src="gr_grin.gif" border="0">
<strong>
Hehe, this sounds like my combo!
</strong><hr></blockquote>
It should <img src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" border="0"> It was your car I was referring too <img src="gr_grin.gif" border="0">
Launching!
Joined: Feb 2002
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From: Crossville , Tn
Re: Missing the old sound of the LT1? Guys , Lets face it our cars sound like "***" compared to the LT1s and even more so then the 5 liter mustangs which IMHO are the meanest sounding cars on the road .. But I'll take the "POWER" of my LS1 over the sound anyday !!! <img src="graemlins/fluffy.gif" border="0" alt="[Fluffy]" /> <img src="gr_eek2.gif" border="0">
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From: I-L-L-I-N-O-I-S
Re: Missing the old sound of the LT1? [quote]Originally posted by Billy C:
<strong>Guys , Lets face it our cars sound like "***" compared to the LT1s and even more so then the 5 liter mustangs which IMHO are the meanest sounding cars on the road .. But I'll take the "POWER" of my LS1 over the sound anyday !!! <img src="graemlins/fluffy.gif" border="0" alt="[Fluffy]" /> <img src="gr_eek2.gif" border="0"> </strong><hr></blockquote>
I agree 100% with you.
Mike
<strong>Guys , Lets face it our cars sound like "***" compared to the LT1s and even more so then the 5 liter mustangs which IMHO are the meanest sounding cars on the road .. But I'll take the "POWER" of my LS1 over the sound anyday !!! <img src="graemlins/fluffy.gif" border="0" alt="[Fluffy]" /> <img src="gr_eek2.gif" border="0"> </strong><hr></blockquote>
I agree 100% with you.
Mike
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From: I-L-L-I-N-O-I-S
Re: Missing the old sound of the LT1? [quote]Originally posted by RPM WS6:
<strong>While it’s true that LT1s do sound deeper and meaner (as a rule), you can really make your LS1 sound great with the right exhaust combo.
Plus, once you start getting into engine mods it’s a whole new sound. The two absolute best sounding LS1s I’ve ever heard had these combos:
1) SLP Loudmouth, gutted stock cats (no ORP rasp this way), stock manifolds, and a heads/cam package
2) SLP 2OTL, FLPs w/ ORPs, and a heads/cam package
These two cars sound very different, but each in it’s own way sounds better than any other LS1 I’ve heard, and better than some (many) LT1s, IMO.
Bigger exhaust valves and longer cam duration go a long way to improve exhaust sound. Plus, it’s all about exhaust system combo. Some catbacks need cats (or gutted cat shells) to sound good, and some sound better with ORPs. And to those who think ORPs sound the same as gutted stock cats on a stock Y-pipe, I can tell you from personal experience that this is not true. I have tried both.</strong><hr></blockquote>
And on this, sorry but I have to disagree. Ryan, have you tried comparing their two car's vs. Pete's cammed 94 Z28 w/ no cat? My gosh, there is NO comparison. His LT1 makes our LS1's almost sound like V6's! I've NEVER heard an LT1 that sounded worse than an LS1 before, IMHO. To me there is a night and day difference in sound.
Mike
<strong>While it’s true that LT1s do sound deeper and meaner (as a rule), you can really make your LS1 sound great with the right exhaust combo.
Plus, once you start getting into engine mods it’s a whole new sound. The two absolute best sounding LS1s I’ve ever heard had these combos:
1) SLP Loudmouth, gutted stock cats (no ORP rasp this way), stock manifolds, and a heads/cam package
2) SLP 2OTL, FLPs w/ ORPs, and a heads/cam package
These two cars sound very different, but each in it’s own way sounds better than any other LS1 I’ve heard, and better than some (many) LT1s, IMO.
Bigger exhaust valves and longer cam duration go a long way to improve exhaust sound. Plus, it’s all about exhaust system combo. Some catbacks need cats (or gutted cat shells) to sound good, and some sound better with ORPs. And to those who think ORPs sound the same as gutted stock cats on a stock Y-pipe, I can tell you from personal experience that this is not true. I have tried both.</strong><hr></blockquote>
And on this, sorry but I have to disagree. Ryan, have you tried comparing their two car's vs. Pete's cammed 94 Z28 w/ no cat? My gosh, there is NO comparison. His LT1 makes our LS1's almost sound like V6's! I've NEVER heard an LT1 that sounded worse than an LS1 before, IMHO. To me there is a night and day difference in sound.
Mike
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 34,627
Likes: 2,543
From: Schiller Park, ILL Member: #317
Re: Missing the old sound of the LT1? [quote]Originally posted by 2000LS1Z28:
<strong>
And on this, sorry but I have to disagree. Ryan, have you tried comparing their two car's vs. Pete's cammed 94 Z28 w/ no cat? My gosh, there is NO comparison. His LT1 makes our LS1's almost sound like V6's! I've NEVER heard an LT1 that sounded worse than an LS1 before, IMHO. To me there is a night and day difference in sound.
Mike</strong><hr></blockquote>
Mike, you haven’t heard Jake’s car yet <img src="gr_tounge.gif" border="0">
Pete’s car sounds great, no question about it. But I’ve been listening to both Pete’s and Jake’s cars for quite a long time and I don’t think that Pete’s LT1 sounds any better than Jake’s LS1.
Mike, not to sound like a smart *** here, but don’t judge Jake’s car till you hear it. I think you’ll be surprised. When idling next to each other Jake’s car clearly has a deeper tone. Trust me, I’ve been hearing both these cars at Photo’s for so many Saturday’s now that it’s not even funny <img src="gr_grin.gif" border="0">
<strong>
And on this, sorry but I have to disagree. Ryan, have you tried comparing their two car's vs. Pete's cammed 94 Z28 w/ no cat? My gosh, there is NO comparison. His LT1 makes our LS1's almost sound like V6's! I've NEVER heard an LT1 that sounded worse than an LS1 before, IMHO. To me there is a night and day difference in sound.
Mike</strong><hr></blockquote>
Mike, you haven’t heard Jake’s car yet <img src="gr_tounge.gif" border="0">
Pete’s car sounds great, no question about it. But I’ve been listening to both Pete’s and Jake’s cars for quite a long time and I don’t think that Pete’s LT1 sounds any better than Jake’s LS1.
Mike, not to sound like a smart *** here, but don’t judge Jake’s car till you hear it. I think you’ll be surprised. When idling next to each other Jake’s car clearly has a deeper tone. Trust me, I’ve been hearing both these cars at Photo’s for so many Saturday’s now that it’s not even funny <img src="gr_grin.gif" border="0">
Re: Missing the old sound of the LT1? LT1s do sound better, <img src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" /> how about the best of both worlds? <img src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" border="0"> <img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[Burnout]" />
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V
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Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Freeland, MD
Re: Missing the old sound of the LT1? [quote]Originally posted by Billy C:
<strong>Guys , Lets face it our cars sound like "***" compared to the LT1s and even more so then the 5 liter mustangs which IMHO are the meanest sounding cars on the road .. But I'll take the "POWER" of my LS1 over the sound anyday !!! <img src="graemlins/fluffy.gif" border="0" alt="[Fluffy]" /> <img src="gr_eek2.gif" border="0"> </strong><hr></blockquote>
I disagree - I think you can have both. My car sounds absolutely b*thcin' - at idle, half throttle, or really stomping on it. Trust me, it sounds all business. But I seem to have the right exhaust combo combined with extra cubes and a big cam.
Like Colonel said, get a 383 all bore (or stroke it to a 422 <img src="graemlins/gr_devil.gif" border="0" alt="[devil]" /> ). Gets you power, sound, and attitude!
<strong>Guys , Lets face it our cars sound like "***" compared to the LT1s and even more so then the 5 liter mustangs which IMHO are the meanest sounding cars on the road .. But I'll take the "POWER" of my LS1 over the sound anyday !!! <img src="graemlins/fluffy.gif" border="0" alt="[Fluffy]" /> <img src="gr_eek2.gif" border="0"> </strong><hr></blockquote>
I disagree - I think you can have both. My car sounds absolutely b*thcin' - at idle, half throttle, or really stomping on it. Trust me, it sounds all business. But I seem to have the right exhaust combo combined with extra cubes and a big cam.
Like Colonel said, get a 383 all bore (or stroke it to a 422 <img src="graemlins/gr_devil.gif" border="0" alt="[devil]" /> ). Gets you power, sound, and attitude!
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 78
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From: NoVA
Re: Missing the old sound of the LT1? I think you guys are missing the point. Aren't you in the LEAST bit curious to see what the differances are. I'm actualy expecting a slight loss, probably because of the differances in air flow, but still worth finding out. I don't buy the "it's all in the iron" thing. Shure I know it makes a differance, but not that big of a differance. I've heard the iron block vortech variations and I swear they just don't sound as nice. Not to mention that deffinatly doesn't explain why a suck *** engine like the 4.6ltr Ford sounds so good. Anyway the point is experimentation, not practicality. Heck if I wanted that I would have never swapped engines in the first place. I figure I can pick up a bare LS1 block pretty cheap, it's the reat thats going to cost. The reciprocating assembly shouldn't be too bad as long as I don't try to build it ultra strong. Stock strength is good enough, but of course you can't get there on stock parts. I think if I can get a place to machine it all for me, for some rasonable cash, this thing might actualy get off the ground. Curious though, what makes everybody so shure it would lose that much power? Anyway we never get anywere on the "it can't be done" speaches. Now anybody interested, just for the hell of it. <img src="gr_tounge.gif" border="0">
Staging Lane
Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Chesapeake, OH
Re: Missing the old sound of the LT1? Sure I'm curious. To do it you WILL have to get a custom crankshaft. I've entertained the idea of having a custom crank ground for a sbc or LT1 that would have the 302 HO firing order and then have a matching cam ground. The cost to have a custom crank done was outrageous. With what you'd spend to do one you could get a 422!