wizkid

iTrader: (3)

Anyone remember who posted that "confidential" document originally?

Eric

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

I beleive NoOne did? Correct?

wizkid

iTrader: (3)

That is what I thought. How did you get it?

Eric

NoOne

I figuired that would show up again somewhere.

Print that document and show it to the zone rep, its genuine.

NoOne

I had the original document but someone else posted it as far as I can remember.

In the end I stopped talking about it, simply because alot of people said the document was BS so I figuired screw em, if they don't want help then can go fix it themselves.

I think I still have the card from the person in GM security that called my house, believe me, the document is real.

MelloYellow

Anyone ever present that document to GM while pursuing a claim? LOL!

Did it help?

NoOne

No one that I know of.

The whole thing died out rather quickly after several people made accusations that the document was fake.

I'll tell you its not, and the way the new responsibilities laws are being worked the person who's name appears in the document as having knowledge of the problem and doing nothing about it could be help liable personally.

The whole issue of liability came up with all the Ford recall stuff and there was talk of legislation to make the higher ups at big companies responsible for their products, it kinda died but the Enron scandle has brought it back to the top again.

MelloYellow

Nice to have tho. Guess it's the kind of ammo you save for last, LOL!

DCPunkSteve

I've told you all before, and I'll say it again. They cannot deny your warrenty unless they can prove that your modfications directly caused the failure. Further more, if ANY dealer laughs at you and treats you like dirt when you bring in documentation stating the law, then you walk out saying "fine, and when the process server comes here, I'll be having the last laugh" no court is going to rule against your warrenty claim, unless you can't back up your claim, or you really did screw it up. I know, I've been there, and for the guys that know me in this area, they can tell you that I spend ALOT of time filing court actions, and suits on companys that don't hold there end of the deal. I've never lost one yet, and I'm not even a lawyer. The key to getting what you want is making your self a MAJOR pain in the ***! Call the zone rep every day until you get HIM on the phone, contact your states Atorny Generals office, and talk to a consumer affairs case worker. Contact the FTC and report that this is an ongoing problem with the LS1, and if you get enough people, they can mave to force GM to recall it. The last dealer (that was Creswell Chevy in Gaithersburg MD) that screwed me and told me I was SOL, ended up paying $1200 for the repairs after they sabotaged my optispark, cut my plug wires, and shorted out my coil and PCM. It the consumers fault these days that large companys feel like they can screw the public ang get away with it. It's YOUR DUTY, as an american to fight this.

Team ZR-1

It's a known fact that due to the design of the oilpan, location of oil filter, that headers can be located too close to the filter and dump hugh amount of heat onto the filter and could cause failure to the pump.
Not saying it did in this case, but the fact headers were seen on the car, if G.M wanted to point to a reason of failure they have it. Whoever installed these should have assured the header heat was deflected from the oil filter. On mine I moved the oil filter to a remote area for I know of failures due to C5 headers being to close.
Vendors do make a heat deflecting plate just for this reason.

This could be a fault of header design placing it too close to oilfilter, small filter size and 1,000 plus degrees translated to filter and the oil to pump area.

Again it may not bave been the failure cause but will make a doubt for G.M to use in court if they in fact look at header placement in detail.

MelloYellow

Wouldn't you notice high oil temps as a problem before the pump started to fail if the headers were a true part of the problem? Not that GM wouldn't blame the headers..

JBsC5

So putting headers on a ls1 should have oil filter relocated..

Is that a very hard thing to do? Whats involved with that from a cost perspective?

Interesting...

Redshift...Let us know how the other dealer treats you.

JB

Redshift

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Team ZR-1:
<strong>It's a known fact that due to the design of the oilpan, location of oil filter, that headers can be located too close to the filter and dump hugh amount of heat onto the filter and could cause failure to the pump.
Not saying it did in this case, but the fact headers were seen on the car, if G.M wanted to point to a reason of failure they have it. Whoever installed these should have assured the header heat was deflected from the oil filter. On mine I moved the oil filter to a remote area for I know of failures due to C5 headers being to close.
Vendors do make a heat deflecting plate just for this reason.

This could be a fault of header design placing it too close to oilfilter, small filter size and 1,000 plus degrees translated to filter and the oil to pump area.

Again it may not bave been the failure cause but will make a doubt for G.M to use in court if they in fact look at header placement in detail.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Sorry John, but my oil temps were nothing but NORMAL the whole time. Never once went above 235 or so - and that was during one warm day I was doing some spirited driving. We all know that temperatures of this oil can easily reach 275 or higher under very hot conditions and that is still no excuse for the pump to fail. If they claim it is, the pump is still poorly designed and should be fixed.

They would have more of a claim against me if I HAD relocated my oil filter than just for the headers.

Team ZR-1

Any decent parts vendor sells a relocating filter kit and also heat deflectors for oil filters when headers are used.

I choose to relocate since I also wanted a heat exchanger to cool the oil.

You get a blank plate that replaces the filter and has two threaded holes to attach the oil flow hoses to. You use A/N fittings and I use a good braided hose.
Cost is maybe $200 for plate, A.N fittings and hose.

The plus to this allows you then to use a much larger filter ( C5 stock filter is really small)
The one I use is 2 1/2 times larger and with the length of oil lines ( and I use a 2 quart AccuSump ) thus oil volume is increased to about 10 quarts helping to keep oil temps cooler.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by JBsC5:
<strong>So putting headers on a ls1 should have oil filter relocated..

Is that a very hard thing to do? Whats involved with that from a cost perspective?

JB</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">

Team ZR-1

The higher heat being added to one point of the block will not be seen as high where the ol temp sensor is. The header still can be heating up the area and causing a marginal part to fail.

There is very little free space inbetween the oil filter and the header and the heat is high.
I saw this on mine early on and the filter and block at that point was super hot.

Thus there can be isolated heat spots that can effect parts local to that heat.

Again I am just giving a view that could be used to shed doubt in a courtroom and gives you thought on how you would defend that if their claim that headers were the cause.

Not sure if you mean you have seen 235 degrees but on mine the oil temps never see over 205 degrees.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Redshift:
<strong>Sorry John, but my oil temps were nothing but NORMAL the whole time. Never once went above 235 or so - and that was during one warm day I was doing some spirited driving. We all know that temperatures of this oil can easily reach 275 or higher under very hot conditions and that is still no excuse for the pump to fail. If they claim it is, the pump is still poorly designed and should be fixed.

They would have more of a claim against me if I HAD relocated my oil filter than just for the headers.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">

<small>[ March 17, 2002, 01:01 PM: Message edited by: Team ZR-1 ]</small>

Ron@Vengeance

iTrader: (51)

Do what I did when the dealer refused to warranty my buddies 01 Vette. He took the car in complaining of "lack of top end power" Long and short of it was we had Atapped the car and it was showing 4 degrees of knock retard and only pulling around 19 degrees of timing at WOT due to the knock. Seemed to be a pushrod or a bent valve. Anyway, after 9 days of bullshit they call him and say theyre not going to warranty anything because he had an aftermarket shifter on the car. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> I ask him to take me with him when he picks up the car. After over an hour of questioning the head service manager I catch him in numerous lies about ****. At one point I ask him if he would like me to rewind the camcorder in my hand and let him listen to his previos answer. At this point he throws us out and tells us never to return. 30 minutes later another dealership calls us, being aware of the "situation" at hand. They asked us to bring the car over there and it would be taken care of ASAP. Well hes picking the car up tomorrow all fixed up.

Moral of the story, cover your *** and dont let them bullshit you. At one point I asked the SM if he knew of SEMA. His response was he worked for GM not some group. I then asked him if he worked under the laws of the federal government. He simply side stepped the question..lol...****** dealers are a joke. Go somewhere else and let em treat you like you deserve to be treated. <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" />

Dean98TA

This discussion has gotten silly. Headers causing the oil filter to get hot, causing the oil pump to fail!!! C'mon!! It's a long documented fact that it's the pressure regulator valve inside the oil pumps that fail, not the pump itself, although they are both combined in a single part.

You need a new oil pump, and if you didn't drive with zero oil pressure, then that's all you need. GM wiggled out from honoring their warranty in a similar fashion when mine failed, and I could have spent the countless hours on the phone, going to small claims court, yadda yadda yadda, but it was simply so much easier to give GM the bird and fix it myself. My gawd it's an easy fix that doesn't require a lot of mechanical expertise. That $300 bill will drop to $60 if you buy the pump and put it on yourself.

The way I see it, GM will probably not be able to sell me another vehicle unless I can delete the warranty at a substantial discount because it isn't worth the paper it's written on.

Trust me, the sooner you know how to do basic work on your car, the better off you will be.

Redshift

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Dean98TA:
<strong>This discussion has gotten silly. Headers causing the oil filter to get hot, causing the oil pump to fail!!! C'mon!! It's a long documented fact that it's the pressure regulator valve inside the oil pumps that fail, not the pump itself, although they are both combined in a single part.

You need a new oil pump, and if you didn't drive with zero oil pressure, then that's all you need. GM wiggled out from honoring their warranty in a similar fashion when mine failed, and I could have spent the countless hours on the phone, going to small claims court, yadda yadda yadda, but it was simply so much easier to give GM the bird and fix it myself. My gawd it's an easy fix that doesn't require a lot of mechanical expertise. That $300 bill will drop to $60 if you buy the pump and put it on yourself.

The way I see it, GM will probably not be able to sell me another vehicle unless I can delete the warranty at a substantial discount because it isn't worth the paper it's written on.

Trust me, the sooner you know how to do basic work on your car, the better off you will be.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I hear ya. But its not the knowledge thats the problem - its the time. I work a lot of hours per day and don't have time to spend on the oil pump in general. They are looking at it right now so we shall have results back by at the latest, tomorrow.

Cheers.

Redshift

Hello everyone:

A special thank you to the kind, honest, and caring folks within GM who want to do the right thing. Everything has been cleared up on my oil pump issue.

The pressure relief valve was stuck wide open, just like they have seen before. They're getting a new pump overnighted in, and will fix it tomorrow. Not sure about engine damage yet, we will cross that bridge when we come to it. Also asked about some type of extension to the warranty covering the engine so that I don't have to worry about further problems later on.

So, the summary is:

Zone rep/Sir Walter Chevy voided my warranty and did not want to discuss it with me.

I then had to contact a "friend" at GM who could do something about it. He found out more, and arranged for a new look at the vehicle under the federal laws which govern defects on new cars.

New dealer, Universal Chevy in Wendell, NC, has isolated the problem to be the run-of-the-mill oil pump failure seen many times before, and is fixing it under GM warranty.

Finally! After over a week without a working car, I'm getting tired of bumming rides and/or using my wife's slowmobile (if she happens to be home).

Thanks again to those who have helped. You know who you are. :')