Cheatr cam vs. GT2-3 (Help PatrickG/Predator)
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Staging Lane
Joined: Oct 2006
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Cheatr cam vs. GT2-3 (Help PatrickG/Predator) I am ruthlessly consuming information on cam/head combinations, and I am really beginning to lean towards sticking with stock exhaust manifolds on my 99 FRC Vette (or going to Z06 manifolds). I have seen a ton of info on this board regarding the Cheatr package, and the GT2-3 cam, both of which run well through stock manifolds. The question I have is this... From what I have seen, the smaller GT2-3 seems to run just about as well as the Cheatr cam, and I wonder why. I have seen Patrick G's dyno graphs, a GT2-3 cam only dyno graph, and a GT2-3 with Lingenfelter heads. For whatever reason, the GT2-3 seems to be pushing out just as much, if not more hp than the Cheatr with, or without heads. Can anyone help explain this phenomenon? The two Vettes I saw with the GT2-3 had Z06 manifolds; would this be the deciding factor? I also saw a dyno graph of a Vette with the Cheatr and Patriot heads, which was identical to the GT2-3 cam up to about 4.5k, and then was only maybe 5-10ft/lb more than the GT2 to redline.
Cam specs are Cheatr: 214/230 .601/.578 117 LSA
GT2-3: 207/220 571/.578
Here's a link to the Z06 clone with the GT2-3 cam and Lingenfelter heads.
http://www.z06vette.com/forums/showt...t=83571&page=5
Here's a link to Patrick G's dyno graph with the Cheatr/AFR heads.
http://guerragroup.com/2000TA_dyno1.jpg
Cam specs are Cheatr: 214/230 .601/.578 117 LSA
GT2-3: 207/220 571/.578
Here's a link to the Z06 clone with the GT2-3 cam and Lingenfelter heads.
http://www.z06vette.com/forums/showt...t=83571&page=5
Here's a link to Patrick G's dyno graph with the Cheatr/AFR heads.
http://guerragroup.com/2000TA_dyno1.jpg
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
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Originally Posted by YankeeVert.
Andy (the guy in the link you posted) was using high flow cats on his setup. He also mentioned that he got 421 HP out of his project before he finished.
I am looking at those two as well as LPE's GT-11 (215/231 .631/.644 w 1.7 rocker 118.0 CL)
The GT2-3 has the least amount of overlap of the three, so I assume it would sound the closest to stock. I want to throw one in my car with true duals dumped before the axle.
The GT2-3 has the least amount of overlap of the three, so I assume it would sound the closest to stock. I want to throw one in my car with true duals dumped before the axle.
Both cams are in the same ballpark regarding lift, duration and LSA. It's very reasonable to expect them to have similar power bands. The GT2-3 is probably more streetable. What are your goals for your car? What kind of setup do you have now and what to want to migrate toward?
Steve
Steve
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the vette manifolds are better than the f-body, they do flow pretty well. The cams selected were designed to work with stock exhaust manifolds (cheater)
Last edited by mullenh; Feb 1, 2007 at 08:50 PM.
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Staging Lane
Joined: Oct 2006
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Originally Posted by Steve Bryant
Both cams are in the same ballpark regarding lift, duration and LSA. It's very reasonable to expect them to have similar power bands. The GT2-3 is probably more streetable. What are your goals for your car? What kind of setup do you have now and what to want to migrate toward?
Steve
Steve
That said, I'm not all about peak horsepower, and I'm not really that in to loud cars. My FRC had B&B Bullets on it when I bought it, and I didn't care for the volume, or drone. My car feels great stock, so I'm not concerned about going overboard in adding power. I would love to be able to hit 400whp with a Cheatr or GT2-3 through stock manifolds with a good set of AFR or Lingenfelter heads. That would be close to 100 additional whp, which should be plenty (I know, it's like an addiction, and it's never enough). I may even go with a cam only, and add heads down the road...
Originally Posted by SSmoky01
Either one of those will benefit from headers. Is there a certain reason why you are not wanting headers? Your factory cam will benefit from that mod.
Originally Posted by mullenh
the vette manifolds are better than the f-body, they do flow pretty well. The cams selected were designed to work with stock manifolds (cheater)
I think the cam is a coin toss. If you want headers and a broader torque band, go for tri-Y. They improve performance over exhaust manifolds and are better than shorty headers, but they are not as peaky as long tubes.
Steve
Steve
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From: Rochester, NY
Originally Posted by kilrb
I know it's not a popular opinion on this website, but I don't want my car to be all that loud. I dig it, and all, but not for this car. I am well aware that I am giving up 30whp by not going headers, and I'm ok with it. I'll put on the flame-proof suit and wait for the name calling.
These are such nice cars from the factory...For me, a few appearance mods, a few bolt-ons and maybe a mild heads/cam combo are perfect way to top off these cars!...
Originally Posted by Signal7
Don't worry, I've been doing some serious thinking lately about this as well...I think I've also made up my mind not to get caught up in a horsepower frenzy...I don't want to be another guy breaking his "weak" transmission and rear end every year...I love going to the track and downloading videos on the internet of crazy F-Bodies but that's just not what I want out of my own car...I got the Pacesetters with ORY-pipe last summer and am thinking of swapping them for stock manifolds/shorty headers in the future...And when I get the money a nice GT2-3 or CheaTR cam sounds like it'd be a good mate with a Yank TC and the bolt-ons I have!
These are such nice cars from the factory...For me, a few appearance mods, a few bolt-ons and maybe a mild heads/cam combo are perfect way to top off these cars!...
These are such nice cars from the factory...For me, a few appearance mods, a few bolt-ons and maybe a mild heads/cam combo are perfect way to top off these cars!...
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Oct 2006
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Originally Posted by Fire-formula 93
I like they way you think. I had longtubes also and recently switched back to stock manifolds and gutted cats with TSP rumbler. I love the sound know, couldnt be happier but I want to increase the power to 350 or more without anymore exhaust modifications. I am considering the cams mentioned, I still need to so some research on the gt2-3 cam but the cheatr requires the dual valve springs. I am on a real budget so I would like to try to get a cam that doesnt require the duals, but makes great power with stock manifolds.
Check with a member named Ragtop 99. He has a stealthy, yet torquey cam that works well with manifolds. He dyno'd 344 on a Mustang dyno, which would be well over 350 on a dynojet. I imagine it's a fun cam. Here's his post... https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthrea...=440051&page=3
With a quiet catback and stock manifolds & cats, there will not be a significant change in loudness between a -15 cam and a -5 overlap cam. If your car is too loud, stick extra bullets in the ehaust and enjoy the power from the higher overalp cam.
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Oct 2006
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Originally Posted by Ragtop 99
With a quiet catback and stock manifolds & cats, there will not be a significant change in loudness between a -15 cam and a -5 overlap cam. If your car is too loud, stick extra bullets in the ehaust and enjoy the power from the higher overalp cam.
