vettenuts

iTrader: (4)

How do the QTP headers differ for the GTO? I have them on my Vette and they are Tri-Y's. They don't seem to get a lot of press for the Vette nor does the Tri-Y design get much consideration, but I bought them with the same thing in mind as Roy, that is low/mid-range power even if I scarifice a few up top (which they may or may not give up).

Ragtop 99

iTrader: (7)

Nice gain in the low flow numbers. Will you repeat this using the 225 heads?

Flow Wizard

This has nothing to do with your build and i'm sorry for your wife, this is directed to Tony "AFR" since his combinations seem to end up with more power than anyone else can come up with, like 480+whp out of a 346 with "out of the box" afr 205's and some 22X cam.......


i am just curious what the total cost of the mamo ported 205's and Fast 90 was.

He's the one who brought up the "Bang for the buck" statement.......

It's funny how people resort to personal attacks for no reason.... i'm just trying to get some clear answers from Tony.

Tony Mamo @ AFR

iTrader: (13)

Guys...

Roy is obviously a little excited (and maybe a little more "edgy") because rumor has it a big truck dropped off a big wooden crate today....

And I see Flow Wizard still has his snyde little crappy attitude.

Yes....my 224/228 stock GM short with AFR 205's did put down 480 about a half a dozen times....mid 470's about 50 times....on 6 different dyno's in two different states. Also made 550 on the same engine dyno Roy's engine being discussed here made 592 on (but crushed my 346 results by 75 ft/lbs!). Let's see....my 3450 lb car also went 124 MPH with the same engine at close to 1500 D/A (not even remotely close to zero or some negative D/A's some of the better results posted are achieved in). What other proof would you like that the results were real? If you want to bring relevant questions to any of my threads go ahead, but lose the attitude because it shines thru clear as day.

And btw....Roy's engine isnt a budget build nor was it ever presented as one....just the opposite in fact. Those really interested in having work done can PM or call me for specifics.

I will get to the other topics brought up recently hopefully this evening or tomorrow in the AM

Thanks,
Tony

Flow Wizard

Still waiting...... It's ok if you still need more time to make up... i mean research your answers

MeentSS02

iTrader: (11)

That sounds kinda like a personal attack to me...and your reason for resorting to that is what? Just curious...

I don't know why you think this is a valid argument...I can't think of anything that is that labor and detail intensive that comes cheap. Unless you think you can do better, at which point I would ask you to make up...I mean get off your *** and stop internet bench racing...a combo that would hold a candle to what Tony can come up with.

If you don't want to pay the premium price it costs to go fast, that's your business. IMO, it has no place in this informational thread.

Tony Mamo @ AFR

iTrader: (13)

Flow Loser....

Do I have to biotch slap you and put you in your place again?

It is so easy and kind of fun. Easy because all my results are real, dyno proven, and have substance....what you see is what you get. No worries about someone calling me out on something because there is nothing to call me out on.

And Im working on finding out who you really are....hope you covered your troll tracks well (where's the troll icon when you really need it?) You signed on as a member a full month ago and are questioning me on results that haven't been discussed in a year or more (my old 346 combo). Hell....has there even been a single thread or discussion about my old combo in the last 6 months....I dont even think so.

Guys, I apologize I havent been back sooner.....I have been building an engine and working on some customers projects the last few days. I will definitley post concerning some good points in this thread made by others as soon as time presents itself (and look over any of Flow Loser's comments that have actual substance worth discussing that I might have overlooked).

Thanks,
Tony

MeentSS02

iTrader: (11)

He kinda reminds me of Sean Collins...although he hasn't blatantly said that the FAST 90 is a piece of **** like Sean did...could be coming though. Brace yourselves

Street Lethal

Extremely childish on your part, no? Take these ridiculous attacks (since their strangely being allowed by the moderators) to personal mail...

1989GTA

Sounds like Flow Wizzard may be one of Tony's competitors and is using this forum to attack him. Like was said above kind of childish.

Flow Wizard

Again you are avoiding answering my previous questions, but thats ok as long as the owner of the motor is really happy i guess thats what really matters...

I have no reason to "hide my troll tracks" i am not trolling i simply asked questions that i wanted to hear the answers to but if you don't want to answer that is ok....

BTW it was not a personal attack, just trying to show how he skirts around the questions.... It ok this is your thread and you can take as much time as you want.

And no i am not one of Tony's Competitors..... But i do wish i could find the pictures i took of the "box stock" AFR heads Tony had on his HC combo....funny how they were missing the CNC tooling marks......

Tony Mamo @ AFR

iTrader: (13)

Flow Moron....

Good to have you chime in again so I can once again respond and make it clear to all reading that you are such a chump (and a liar it seems as well).

Like YOU took a picture of the heads on my car....if so please tell me who you are and when you would have had the chance to do so.

How about this....I sold the heads that were on my former 346 combo to Chad Rose (Black02SS) on this board (the owner of Greenlight Motorsports). Seeing as he received them and installed him on his car perhaps he could chime in on whether or not the heads still retained the factory CNC marks....in fact seems as if I sent Chad a half a dozen pics as well....Im sure I could post one in here also.

While I could have all of you posts in this thread deleted I prefer to keep them here so everyone can see right thru you and your bullshit. Hard for you to have much credibility at this point the way I see it. You may have to start a new troll name next month because this one is getting old....very sad.

Thanks for keeping my thread alive....and the entertainment has been priceless.

I'll be back today guys on some of the real topics of discussion....

Tony M.

Black02SS

iTrader: (36)

These heads are now on my car just like Tony said. I have taken a few pictures of the heads and have them on my home PC. Later this evening when I get a chance, I'll post them up so you can see for yourself. Please don't ask me what is done to the car, how much power it makes, etc. What point are you really trying to prove here?

MeentSS02

iTrader: (11)

Exactly how much power does it make Chad? And what all DO you have done to it?

I don't think he really had a point. Just likes to hear himself talk...or read what he wrote...or something like that.

Black02SS

iTrader: (36)

It runs 12.9's.... Finally!!!

MeentSS02

iTrader: (11)

It's all about the trap speed...

Sadly, I'm still in the upper 14s I wish I could blame the altitude this time, but sadly, I can't.

Patrick G

iTrader: (14)

Flow Buzzard,

You write like somebody who's been on the board a long time. Funny you don't remember any of the LG Motorsports dynos of heads/cam C5s running AFR 205s making more than 500 rwhp. Granted, they were running larger cams than Tony's 224/228 .581/.588 114LSA cam so it only makes sense. Even my car made in the higher 480s when I was running AFR 205s and a Thunder Racing 231/234 .643/.598 112LSA TRak cam. See below. My point? You are doing nothing but making yourself look like a troll. Do us all a favor...bring some tech into the next reply or prepare for a vacation.

Flow Wizard

Tony Just so you know, it was at A&A corvette while i was there getting my car worked on, you had the intake off checking it for oil during one one or your hundred rocker adjustments that day.........

Patrick,

I do rememeber the LG car making the power but like you said they where on much larger cams.

Tony Mamo @ AFR

iTrader: (13)

Ok...

Let me quickly hit on some of the better points that have been brought up in this conversation....

Vipretr2....concerning chassis dyno losses it has been my contention for quite some time that they are closer to a fixed "delta" as I refer to it versus a percentage. Of course every number represents a certain percentage but if you have a known driveline and spin that driveline the same speed during the sweep (say from 3000-7000 RPM), the losses should remain close to a constant of fixed number (the Delta) no matter what engine is placed in front of it. So yes....if you pick up another 100 HP on the engine dyno with a new combination, all or close to all of those gains will be transmitted to the pavement. At the point where a particular known driveline is close to failing and you have driveshafts and half shafts whipping wildly and rear end gears and cases getting tweaked under load, your losses from friction, driveshaft whip, and heat would increase slightly right before your driveline gave up the ghost. Note that my opinion while backed by my own testing (as well as others I trust in the industry who work with both engine and chassis dyno's) is not the "popular" generally accepted opinion and I don't want to muddy up this thread with controversy concerning that from the percentage loss crowd having to prove a point. I have been involved in a few topics discussing this and they can get very heated from both camps....this thread isnt the time and place. More real world info to once again back and solidify that theory will be available when I test my upcoming 415 on the engine dyno (same one used here) and then ultimately in my vehicle on the chassis dyno. If my "air dyno" is close at 650 flywheel ponies, I should make in the vicinity of 575 at the wheels based on my previous "Delta" with my known driveline losses. Also, it's important to note that every individuals car has there own Delta....driveline component weight, wheels and tires, type of trans, converter, rear end gear ratio....all of these variables factor into your personal net loss from engine to chassis results.

Bob (Vettenuts)....you are right that the Tri-Y design is usually worth a little more downstairs and in the middle part of your power band than a typical 4 into one set-up, but an optimized length primary pipe coupled with an efficient merge style collecter with the merge spike included could come close or potentially exceed the Tri-Y design and make more power at peak and past peak, but the likelihood is better that your Tri-Y set-up will beat most commercially available 4 into 1 set-ups, but also probably cost you a few ponies at the top end of the range....essentially everything you were onboard with going in it seems. All is good there...

Ragtop...some of the low lift flow flow gains were from the chamber and light porting work....some were also from the fact I tested these heads on a 4" bore (versus a 3.900) to better simulate Roy's actual numbers with the LS2 block. There is a benefit to the smaller valve also when you do the chamber work as there is lots of room between the valve and the chamber wall when finished. A 225 at the same size chamber diameter is slightly more crowded with the larger 2.080 valve....another small perk or reason I felt the 2.020 valved reworked AFR 205 would be the better choice in Roy's application, but the additional airspeed and part throttle the smaller head would offer was the main driving force in that decision. Knowing I could get the low and midlift flow close to the 225's be reworking the head simply made it more of a no-brainer.

Last but not least would be Flow Buzzard's concerns (good one Pat!) which besides his lies and general poor disposition, primarily consisted of pinning me down on pricing and arguing this wasn't a budget build. No ****....I never claimed it was and in fact stated early on in this thread just the opposite. The point of this thread was more aimed at showing you can have your cake and eat it to (aggressive package numbers with perfectly drivability and an almost stock like idle) if you put the right package together, meticulously assemble it, and spend more on some additional machine work, porting, and other quality components that helped this engine ultimately generate the power it did.

Regarding pricing on porting work and other concerns, those types of things are best handled privately through PM or on the phone....you guys know where to find me.

Regards,
Tony

JMBLOWNWS6

iTrader: (17)

How much power does it make? You couldnt tune a KIA