chasgiv3

iTrader: (1)

I've been using Redline Synthetic Oils since 1987. I've used it in my lawn mowers and snowblowers and of course my cars. I think Royal Purple is good stuff but no different then Redline. Street price suggests to me that the price of each synthetic is about the same. I stick with redline since I've used it for years and it's been perfect for me so far.

However, I really can't see anyone going wrong using either Redline or RP. Honestly the color of RP is there for show. Redline has also been supporting Turbocharged racing engines for a very long time. Since I'm twin turbo'd I'll keep the redline in mine.

TomBusby

Hey Patman, ignore the *** clown flamer, but answer this:
Because moly (molybdenum) is the ultimate in slippery, how does it stay in suspension? I'm not a chemist, but moly can't bond to the long carbon-hydrogen chains in dino oil, right? So does synthetic oil have some molecular place for the moly to bond? My point is: (1) if moly is slippery to everything on the planet, isn't oil one of the least likely places for moly to stay in suspension? and (2) moly is quite a bit denser than oil so it won't normally stay in suspension in any type of oil. What am I not knowing here?

Patman

From what I've gathered recently, there are a couple of types of moly used in oils, molybdenum disulphide and molybdeum disuphate. I'll be the first to admit I'm not a chemist, but these particles are apparently so small (less than a half micron) that they will remain in suspension in the oil and will not settle, they use a solubule form of moly. You may be correct about them not adhering to the molecules in dino oil, since so far the only oils I know of which use Moly are Maxlife and Shaffers (both are blends) and Redline (full synthetic)

Like I said, I'm not a chemist, and I don't know everything there is to know about oil by any means, but just because I don't know every specification on every oil out there doesn't mean I haven't been doing my research. I learn new stuff everyday and am simply trying to help out my friends here, not mislead them like some want to believe. I'm sorry to the original poster of this topic that some *** clown had to come in and ruin a good topic instead of either keeping his damn mouth shut, or adding something constructive.

DRM C5

“I've been doing a ton of research into oils lately” - You say you’ve done in-depth research yet it’s apparent that you rely upon web sites and word of mouth –

Quote - “I couldn't find the specs on the RP race oil on their site, do you know where I can find them?” Subsequently, another forum member points out that RP racing oil has a TBN of 11. Patman – "I couldn't find the specs on the RP race oil on their site, do you know where I can find them?” This indicates that your so-called research is potentially full of more inaccuracies since your information (sources) is unreliable.

I use Royal Purple Racing 21 in my Corvette so I emailed an RP tech to confirm the use of its racing oil. Here is the RP's reply -
"Racing oils are formulated with detergents/ dispersants and may be used in street applications. I have recently completed an 8,000 mile drain interval using 21 in my bike ('00 Super Hawk 996). The oil analysis showed the oil's alkalinity (TBN) to be 6 after 8k miles. Barring excessive contamination (fuel, dirt, glycol, etc.), the Racing oils may be safely used as long as the SAE motor oils."


Quote - “I stand by the fact that a race oil is not suitable for street use, it does not contain the right additive package.” – How do you know? Perhaps it does. It was already proven that you don’t know enough about RP racing oil. You are throwing around unsubstantiated opinions. You clearly do not have enough facts and shouldn’t comment on the subject. Maybe your “research” should’ve included talking with an RP technician about your concerns.


You may know a little about oil but not close enough to speak authoritatively, thus why should anyone believe that any other data you have is also not corrupt?

I am satisfied that I brought awareness to a post where certain persons, even though they have good intentions, do not have enough facts to speak authoritatively on this subject.

<small>[ May 22, 2002, 09:39 AM: Message edited by: DRM C5 ]</small>

Pro Stock John

iTrader: (34)

DRM, I think you have made your point, let's keep this thread on track.

JAS

DRM C5 - Quite frankly, this is a forum for people to express their opinions. Believe me ,when I say, I welcome your opinion as much as I do Patmans and others. However, it is RIDICULOUS for you to completely step on other users expressing their findings. The reader should have the final sense to decide what he/she wants to do based on the information given (manufacturer, seller, etc has every right also to jump in to present their side!!!) I do NOT see Royal Purple jumping in here to present their side or any other oil refiner. In all honesty, this site would not exist if users didn't share information (the good, the bad, the ugly)! God knows the people that actually do know first hand don't post or talk.

So, since you seem to have first contact with RP, instead of trying to bend Patman over, why don't you line up someone from RP to "set the record straight" right here, online, in this thread!

<img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" />

<small>[ May 22, 2002, 10:29 AM: Message edited by: JAS ]</small>

ChiggerSS

My gosh...let C5 go on with his point!! All Patman used to preach was *Mobil 1*, *Mobil 1*. Now it's Valvoline Maxlife? And a guy comes along who is paying enough attention to point out dicrepencies in Patman's findings and people bust him up. I think it is interesting and informative, let him go...

JAS

I'm not trying to defend Patman. He knows I wouldn't do that. <img border="0" alt="[chug]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_chug.gif" />

My point was, if you HAVE the MEANS to bring in some EXPERT information direct from the source, then I would very much like to see that happen.

Right now, the ONLY thing DRM is accomplishing is to show other user that you will be dammed to hell if you are NOT THE EXPERT and post something.

Hell, even the EXPERTS probably FEAR posting because there IS ALWAYS someone who WILL attack them.

Like I said, I welcome DRM's opinion as well. <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" />

Carry on...

<small>[ May 22, 2002, 10:52 AM: Message edited by: JAS ]</small>

Dipstick

Getting back on track, I've been saving this quote from an oil engineer. I use Rotella-T in all my vehicles and plan on using it in my new LS1 powered sandrail. ZDDP is an anti-wear additive for high load engines, I.E. diesel. With this and the other additives, I feel it is a good oil for high performance and daily use.

"I could design an oil for this application," he says brightly, mentioning that he sometimes does special recipes for people he meets in his neighborhood while walking his dog. But for an off-the-shelf blend, he would choose a "heavy duty" oil intended for diesel trucks. Instead of SJ on the can, look for combinations that begin with C (for compression ignition). CG-4 is the test, preceded by CF-4, CF-2, CF, etc. A few blends meet both C and S requirements. While the oil part of these diesel oils has the same lubricating qualities as passenger-car oil, the most common heavy-duty viscosity is 15W-40: more syrupy. But the diesels get bigger doses of the additives; up to 80 percent more ZDDP, and 30 to 50 percent more detergent, dispersant, and corrosion inhibitors."

Fulton 1

iTrader: (9)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by JAS:
My point was, if you HAVE the MEANS to bring in some EXPERT information direct from the source, then I would very much like to see that happen.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">For the record, I tried earlier to share some info that comes directly from the source. It's actually quite informative if one takes the time to read it...

http://listserv.corvettemuseum.com/c...R1NET&P=R65737

<small>[ May 22, 2002, 01:09 PM: Message edited by: Fulton 1 ]</small>

StevieZ

iTrader: (3)

Dipstick got the same response from another oil formulation engineer that I got from mine. Diesel oils have THE HIGHEST amounts of additives and will all work great in a gasoline engine application. This is why I am hot to trot to try the AMSOIL deisel/marine 15W40. The specs are GREAT.

<small>[ May 22, 2002, 01:14 PM: Message edited by: StevieZ ]</small>

XtraCajunSS

iTrader: (2)

FIRST OF ALL, I AM NOT A CHEMIST OR AN OIL FORMULATION EXPERT. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />

Now woth that out of the way, I can give you what I do know regarding oils based on 12 years experience with industrial lubricant applications such as industrial diesel engines and industrial manufaturing equipment. We use extremely high detergent oils in our Diesel engines and non-detergent oils in our manufaturing equipment.

One thing no one has mentioned yet concerning detergents and additives is the fact that the more detergents and additives you have in a 1 qt bottle of "oil" the less oil you have. I a relatively low RPM application like a Diesel or street engine with longer service intervals, it is a great advantage to use an oil formulated this way, i. e. the Diesel/Heavy Duty oils. The problem with high detergent oils in race/high rpm applications is that they tend to form foam. That fact combined with the shorter change intervals race engines see is the reason most race oils are low detergent. This is also why we use non-detergent oils in our high rpm or recipricating equipment.

That said, for a street driven car (high performance or not) or even a frequently raced street car, it is probably better to stay with either a Diesel/Heavy Duty oil or a HD formulation. The race oils are probably best left to the extended high rpm full race engines. Anyway, basically any synthetic oil or even synthetic blend will work fine in our engines. If someone does come up with conclusive dyno tests proving that one makes more power than the other then switch. Also, I don't believe it is a good idea to go with the higher viscosity oils. You will just increase startup wear in cold weather and probably experience more piston slap. Also, your fuel economy and power numbers will be adversely affected. Why do you think NASCAR uses ultra low viscosity oils for qualifying (up until this year anyway...) I would definitely stick with the recommended viscosity for your climate.

Just my $.02... Please hold the flames. I think I have the appropriate number of disclaimers in this post. If not, will the moderator please let me know.

Thanks,
Shane

<small>[ May 22, 2002, 01:52 PM: Message edited by: XtraCajunSS ]</small>

Dipstick

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> One thing no one has mentioned yet concerning detergents and additives is the fact that the more detergents and additives you have in a 1 qt bottle of "oil" the less oil you have </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">With that said, I wondeer if that would make a 15W40 more like a 10W30. I'd rather not go to a 15W40. Justs checked their web site and they do make a 10W30 and a 5W40 full synthetic.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Shell ROTELLA® T Synthetic 5W-40 is a fully synthetic heavy-duty engine oil. It carries the Shell and ROTELLA® names and the associated high standards of quality. ROTELLA® T Synthetic engine oil is suited for use in diesel and gasoline engines, and meets the warranty and service requirements of virtually all diesel and gasoline engine manufacturers. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Here is their web site: Rotella

Just noticed they also have:

RIMULA® SAE 15W-40, 10W-30 Available Around the World - Now Here! Shell RIMULA® PREMIUM oils are extra high performance heavy-duty diesel and gasoline engine oils for longer oil and engine life in turbo and non-turbocharged engines. Gonna look for that.

<small>[ May 22, 2002, 02:37 PM: Message edited by: Dipstick ]</small>

Patman

Sigh. Yes, I did used to preach Mobil 1 all the time, and part of that was the fact that it did used to be a very good oil, however the recent formula is not as good as it used to be. Part of that is the fact that they have reduced the antiwear additives zinc and phosphorus to comply with upcoming new oil regulations (which I believe are coming out next year, it's a different thing than just the SL rating which has come out already)

I also did not know this before, but all 10w30s and 5w30s are not created equal, and do not all have the same viscosity at operating temperature. An oil has to be within a certain range to qualify as a 30wt, and Mobil 1 is at the low end of that scale, which is why so many LS1 users find they burn more oil with it. I did not know this before, I admit that, which is why I was reluctant to blame Mobil 1 for all the oil burning problems. So yes, I did defend Mobil 1 all that time since I couldn't figure out how a different brand of the same viscosity oil could possibly burn more oil. But like I said, I learn something new everyday. I never said I knew everything about oil, it's a complex subject, but I have learned enough about it that I think I can help out a few of my friends when they have questions about it.

A forum like this is a place where people can share opinions, and if people are just going to be attacked, then it's going to get real quiet real fast. It's not as if I purposely tried to spread false information out there, which is what DRM is implying here.

I'm just trying to help, ok? I'm not going to be 100% correct all the time, nobody can be like that.