Nine Ball

iTrader: (38)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Sounds like a lot of crankcase pressure to be pushing a valvecover gasket out. Are you sure you don't have a ring issue?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">My engine was basically sealed. I still had the PCV valve inline and it would shut under pressure. No vent at all. 525 rwhp and large pistons do create a ton of crankcase pressure. Its not the rings, I only have about 400 miles on the motor and it isn't burning any oil.

I put a series of breather filters on the valve cover nipples now, and went out and beat on it for an hour yesterday. Seems to be working so far.

Can we use the LS1 AIR pump? I have mine removed anyways.

Tony

2001CamaroGuy

iTrader: (6)

I have been tossing a crank case pump around for a while myself. What would be a good electric pump to use? I have the AIR pump I removed from the car but it is REALLY loud. What is everyone else using? How did you set it up?

ChrisB

No, again, the stock air pump is not sufficient to pull any vacuum -and if you aren't pulling vacuum there is no point to running a pump; you might as well have a breather setup.

I would personally suggest using this part - it's a ford part

The engineering number is F6ZE-9A486-DC
THe cross to the ford computer catalogue is F6ZZ-9A486-DA.

If you use it please let me know if it pulls vacuum on a ls1 motor at wot.

The electric pump everyone has previously been using (on lt1's), but doesn't seem sufficient for lt1, is

Pump #-22062562
Electric plugin-12085485

Those are GM part numbers

Chris

Tim98TA

iTrader: (7)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by ChrisB:
[QB]How have you determined/quantified this? Even a stock vehicle has an amount of blow by?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I guess what I should have stated about the blowby is that I haven't pushed any gaskets out nor do I have any oil seepage around my breather. My bad.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That is because you block off the pcv. Removing the pcv and running breathers, or even worse, leaving the crankcase unvented will achieve the same result. The fact that you have no oil in the intake reflects a lack of a pathway for the oil to travel. It does nothing to quantify the viability of the air pump in reverse.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Your right. I have the TB blocked from any incoming oil/PCV lines. Thats the reason for no oil in the intake.

I have a tube coming fromboth valve covers tying in to each other and running to the AIR pump. It vents out to atmosphere. I also have a K & N brather on the passenger valve cover.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">With this setup you are not creating any vacuum. You can only do this with a sealed crankcase - which your breather works in counter to.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Your right. I am simply venting my crankcase to relieve ANY pressure buildup, thus preventing any pushed gaskets, oil leaks. Now, I do however at the track(not all the time), remove the breather and plug that hole. NOW I am creating a slight vacuum on the crankcase.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I believe my original statement - that the stock air pump will not move enough volume to create a vacuum still stands.
If you wish to quantify the effectiveness of your setup you need to hook up a vacuum gauge to the setup and monitor your pressure at WOT. Any positive values (pressure relative to atmospheric) indicate that the setup is not working. The best your setup can do is atmospheric (since it is vented).</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Like I said before, at WOT with the vent removed and hole plugged, I have 0 pressure/vacuum.

Terry Bugger, your statement doesn't even warrant a reply from me.

Tim

Tim98TA

iTrader: (7)

You can believe it or not, but my system DOES work.
NO, it is not the best/perfect system, but it does the job and it was FREE!!!!!!!
I have had this on my car for 2 years now.
We recently put H/C in my wifes LT1 Formula, and using the stock configuration AND a breather on the valve cover, she was still having a pressure problem causing the breather to become oil saturated and dripping/running on the top of the valve cover. I hooked up the exact system on her car as mine and PROBLEM SOLVED. So yes it does work.

Tim

ChrisB

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Tim98TA:
<strong>Now, I do however at the track(not all the time), remove the breather and plug that hole. NOW I am creating a slight vacuum on the crankcase. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"></strong>

Again, how do you know? Have you hooked up a vacuum gauge? I have tried this same setup, even with running dual factory smog pumps, and it does not pull vacuum at WOT. In a LT1 or especially a LS1.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">
Like I said before, at WOT with the vent removed and hole plugged, I have 0 pressure/vacuum.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">

Based on what?

Chris

Pro Stock John

iTrader: (34)

I'm running a hybrid, I have the LS6 pcv system and part of the regular pcv system. The outlet in the back of the driver's side valve cover goes to the rear outlet in the passenger side valve cover... And the the front outlet of the passenger side cover goes into a filter, and then into the TB.

I plan to run an electric evac system derived off of the Caddy 4-6-8 pump at some point, but I mainly plan to do that to pick up a few horsies.

Narcoleptic SS

This should work
<img src="http://www.safesexmall.com/images/menu1713.jpg" alt=" - " />

<img src="http://www.safesexmall.com/images/menu186.jpg" alt=" - " />

<img src="http://www.safesexmall.com/images/menu1710.jpg" alt=" - " />

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="gr_tounge.gif" />

<small>[ May 29, 2002, 10:43 AM: Message edited by: Narcoleptic SS ]</small>

Terry Burger

iTrader: (4)

Must be valve seals? I can't imagine the vacuum pull on the rings letting off at WOT is greater than the pressure on them at peak torque.

NicD

iTrader: (7)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Nine Ball:
<strong>It only blows that oil out when I get off of the throttle. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">This is the same problem I have. It smokes pretty good coming down from high RPMs after a run if held in gear. I know its not the valve seals because I replaced them thinking that may have been it, it wasn't. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Sad]" src="gr_sad.gif" />

If anybody finds any solutions lets post them here. It seems to be a problem that I am reading more and more about lately with no answers to a fix.

ChrisB

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Tim98TA:
<strong>Chris, what part of the following quote don't you understand? I HAVE 0 PRESSURE/VACUUM!!!!!!! I HAVE MEASURED IT WITH A GUAGE!!!!!!!!!!</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"></strong>

That was what I was trying to determine - if you check your posts you never confirmed you measured it with a guage until now.

I am still not clear - I believe/understand how you can get atmospheric readings with the breather/pump setup, but to be concise are you also claiming you get atmospheric readings with the entire system plugged/only the air pump evacuating? Is this atmospheric readings across the board, or at a certain RPM? And did you measure at WOT? Typically if you move enough air to evacuate the setup at, say, wot at 5000 rpm you WILL have a vacuum at lower rpm - since your evacuation rate is constant, but the blowby rate varies with rpm.

My other question was - where did you plumb the guage in?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Must be valve seals? I can't imagine the vacuum pull on the rings letting off at WOT is greater than the pressure on them at peak torque. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">

It's not greater, but the forces are in a different direction so it works the rings differently. When you accelerate you have tremendous cylinder pressure pushing down on the rings. When you engine break the force is in the opposite direction (the wheels(inertia) is pushing the pistons up - not the burning of the fuel/air charge pushing the piston down.

The force on the rings is different, so you can frequently have flutter/sealing issues. The easiest solution is just to throw the car in neutral.

Chris

<small>[ May 29, 2002, 04:58 PM: Message edited by: ChrisB ]</small>

NoGo

iTrader: (2)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Nine Ball:
<strong>PSJ mentioned something via IM, and mine does the same thing as his did. It only blows that oil out when I get off of the throttle. Both of these events happened after I made the passes, during the shutdown area of the track.

Tony</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">For the same engine RPM, the vacuum in the intake is going to be much higher with the throttle body flap closed, than with the throttly body flap wide open. I think this would explain why much more oil is getting sucked into the intake when you are coming off of WOT.

Any easy fix for this problem would be to relocate the PCV suction port from after the throttle body blade to before the throttle body blade. This would ensure that the PCV system pulls a vaccum on the crankcase relative to how wide open the throttle is.

Opinions?

Pro Stock John

iTrader: (34)

I think the issue is something to do with our peculiar PCV system on the car.

Tim98TA

iTrader: (7)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by ChrisB:
[QB]I am still not clear - I believe/understand how you can get atmospheric readings with the breather/pump setup, but to be concise are you also claiming you get atmospheric readings with the entire system plugged/only the air pump evacuating? Is this atmospheric readings across the board, or at a certain RPM? And did you measure at WOT? Typically if you move enough air to evacuate the setup at, say, wot at 5000 rpm you WILL have a vacuum at lower rpm - since your evacuation rate is constant, but the blowby rate varies with rpm.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">[/b]
Yes it does create a vacuum at idle/low rpms, but not a huge vacuum. If I remember it was around 8-10lbs, which is not great, but it gets the job done. Course as the rpms increase the vacuum falls off. I think that at around 5000 rpms is where it falls to about 0, but I never saw anymore than say 1lb of pressure which is pretty much nothing. And that was further up than 5000 rpms.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">My other question was - where did you plumb the guage in?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">
The plumbing was easy. Just pulled the breather off of the fitting sticking off the valve cover and hooked a hose w/vacuum guage attached.

Tim

SS00Blue

I know I don't know much, but I do have a friend that is presently running a 510 BBC with a 14-71 set at 28PSI. I assume that, at his 8000RPM redline, he is equally as likely as you here to run into crankcase pressure problems. He also running that radical induction pressure with larger-than-a-coffee-can sized pistons.

So here's what he did, and it WILL work for you:

March performance makes pulleys of various sizes for us folks that run the 6-rib belt. When attached to the belt driven, -AN fitted ford vacuum pump, crankcase pressure woes disappear. It may be the same P/N as one of the gentlemen previously posted, but I'm not sure.

It was $300 total. I have a pic on my computer, but nowhere to host it (thanks PhotoHack). If anyone would like to host the pic, I'll be happy to share AND hook any and all up to the gentleman who makes these beauties.

One thing is certain. It'll suck the rings out of your block at 8000RPM/28PSI if you don't set up the pulley size correctly. I am relatively sure that'll make an improvement for our ultra-mild (relatively speaking) applications.

Good day,
SC

<small>[ May 29, 2002, 07:58 PM: Message edited by: SS00Blue ]</small>

JimmyKash

email the pic to me, i'll host it

koby12@ureach.com

Tim98TA

iTrader: (7)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by ChrisB:
[QB]Again, how do you know? Have you hooked up a vacuum gauge? I have tried this same setup, even with running dual factory smog pumps, and it does not pull vacuum at WOT. In a LT1 or especially a LS1.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Chris, what part of the following quote don't you understand? I HAVE 0 PRESSURE/VACUUM!!!!!!! I HAVE MEASURED IT WITH A GUAGE!!!!!!!!!!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">
Like I said before, at WOT with the vent removed and hole plugged, I have 0 pressure/vacuum.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">

I don't see where you can't read that.
So you tried it and it didn't work. Oh Well. I have it on my car and my wifes and, guess what, IT WORKS FOR ME!!!!!!

Tim

Nine Ball

iTrader: (38)

PSJ mentioned something via IM, and mine does the same thing as his did. It only blows that oil out when I get off of the throttle. Both of these events happened after I made the passes, during the shutdown area of the track.

Tony

SERIALPIMP

iTrader: (4)

What is wrong with using the exhaust to pull excess crankcase pressure out with a stepped breather that allows the oil to drip back down, this is what most 8 and 9 second small tire drag cars do, Moroso sells a kit, as do a few other companies,

If you don't know what I am talking about I can explain more.

HOWQUICK

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by TimZ28:
<strong>Sounds like a lot of crankcase pressure to be pushing a valvecover gasket out. Are you sure you don't have a ring issue?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I'd like to know the answer to that....sound like that thing has a seriuos ring/bore issue, regardless of oil ring tension. Might be time for the leak down tester and try it with the piston 1/2 down the stroke...something isn't right <img border="0" title="" alt="[Sad]" src="gr_sad.gif" />