224 is good but...
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 61
Likes: 0
From: SOCAL
224 is good but... after running this S2 H&C for a few weeks, I think it's useless. I dont mean it was a waste or that I don't like the added little bit (literally) of pwr but I feel this car could have gained more with a dual pattern for the needed tq at the bottom.
There is no need to wind this car up to 6500 rpms. 5500 now seems to have been plenty rpms. I've learned I was too naive about this install. I would have liked the feel of tapping the gas and feeling all that low end tq. When I had this car done, MMS retained the stock lifters w/this cam. I posted this before and it didn't sit well with me. In fact it was somewhat upsetting. Since then, this car has now begun ticking like crazy. It sounded like an exhaust leak at first so I had the car on a rack to check it out underneath and also where the headers bolt up. I even had the gaskets replaced and had the system checked for leaks. It was tight. The ticking remains. It's not the fuel inj pulse or tensioner. A previous post addressed this car only making 380 rwhp. I experimented w/Bassani midlengths and only gained 4 frickin HP!--I just laughed. With MACs it made the 380. Needless to say the gains sucked. Hooker LTs are on the way. If this doesnt add something significant, I'll be crackin a whip. Someone mentioned a cammed car wont touch a H&C'd car. TR and MTI and a couple of others Ive personally met say they'll prove it or pay nothing. (yikes) Thanks for the feedback. <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" />
There is no need to wind this car up to 6500 rpms. 5500 now seems to have been plenty rpms. I've learned I was too naive about this install. I would have liked the feel of tapping the gas and feeling all that low end tq. When I had this car done, MMS retained the stock lifters w/this cam. I posted this before and it didn't sit well with me. In fact it was somewhat upsetting. Since then, this car has now begun ticking like crazy. It sounded like an exhaust leak at first so I had the car on a rack to check it out underneath and also where the headers bolt up. I even had the gaskets replaced and had the system checked for leaks. It was tight. The ticking remains. It's not the fuel inj pulse or tensioner. A previous post addressed this car only making 380 rwhp. I experimented w/Bassani midlengths and only gained 4 frickin HP!--I just laughed. With MACs it made the 380. Needless to say the gains sucked. Hooker LTs are on the way. If this doesnt add something significant, I'll be crackin a whip. Someone mentioned a cammed car wont touch a H&C'd car. TR and MTI and a couple of others Ive personally met say they'll prove it or pay nothing. (yikes) Thanks for the feedback. <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" />
Teching In
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 44
Likes: 0
From: Dearborn Heights, MI
Re: 224 is good but... For the ticking, check the A.I.R. risers off your headers. If there is not a restrictor plate in there, the noise you are hearing is the check valves (2 @ approx. $11.99/ea.) Common overlooked occurance and they don't "tick" right away.
Sorry I can't help anywhere else, I've yet to take the road on the H/C setup.
<small>[ June 01, 2002, 11:41 PM: Message edited by: Cam99SS9 ]</small>
Sorry I can't help anywhere else, I've yet to take the road on the H/C setup.
<small>[ June 01, 2002, 11:41 PM: Message edited by: Cam99SS9 ]</small>
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 61
Likes: 0
From: SOCAL
Re: 224 is good but... yes, went w/MMS S2 heads and cam--only gained 80 rwhp w/MACs and tuning. am not very happy. will be switching to LTs for improvement and will switch catback to mufflex. for the same price i could have installed an ATI PC and been completely satisfied. or better yet, drove my car clear over to TR, vacation, stay in 4 star hotel and just go with a cam install for 1/2 the cost for the same gain, if not more! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />
Re: 224 is good but... </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by 1BLKSS:
<strong>yes, went w/MMS S2 heads and cam--only gained 80 rwhp w/MACs and tuning. am not very happy. will be switching to LTs for improvement and will switch catback to mufflex. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">How much power were you expecting? did you have the MACS and got 80 rwhp from the H&C or did you get 80 rwhp from H&C + headers? Do your MACs have the MAC cats...cause they suck and are holding you back.
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">
for the same price i could have installed an ATI PC and been completely satisfied. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">FI is never simple; even when bought in a kit. Don't kick yourself on that one. A sucky exhaust will kill a S/C too.
<strong>yes, went w/MMS S2 heads and cam--only gained 80 rwhp w/MACs and tuning. am not very happy. will be switching to LTs for improvement and will switch catback to mufflex. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">How much power were you expecting? did you have the MACS and got 80 rwhp from the H&C or did you get 80 rwhp from H&C + headers? Do your MACs have the MAC cats...cause they suck and are holding you back.
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">
for the same price i could have installed an ATI PC and been completely satisfied. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">FI is never simple; even when bought in a kit. Don't kick yourself on that one. A sucky exhaust will kill a S/C too.
Re: 224 is good but... 80rwhp is pretty good for a mild head/cam swap. I'm not sure what you were expecting but that is a good gain. Most guys make 400rwhp, but then again they all start at 320rwhp. RE the noise, it's normal to pick up a little more valve train noise with the heads/cam, those valves are working a lot harder. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />
I did the MMS 2x heads with 224v3.1 (probably the same cam you have?) with tuning and went from 322rwhp to 401rwhp. I upgraded to the 229v2.1 and electric water pump and went up to 435rwhp.
If you have mac headers with the off road pipe I would not bother changing them, those are pretty good headers. You need to do a dyno pull with the catback dropped! Adding long tube headers will net you zero hp if your catback is the restriction!
I did the MMS 2x heads with 224v3.1 (probably the same cam you have?) with tuning and went from 322rwhp to 401rwhp. I upgraded to the 229v2.1 and electric water pump and went up to 435rwhp.
If you have mac headers with the off road pipe I would not bother changing them, those are pretty good headers. You need to do a dyno pull with the catback dropped! Adding long tube headers will net you zero hp if your catback is the restriction!
Re: 224 is good but... </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">
yes, went w/MMS S2 heads and cam--only gained 80 rwhp w/MACs and tuning. am not very happy. will be switching to LTs for improvement and will switch catback to mufflex. for the same price i could have installed an ATI PC and been completely satisfied. or better yet, drove my car clear over to TR, vacation, stay in 4 star hotel and just go with a cam install for 1/2 the cost for the same gain, if not more!
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I hope you're joking? Take it from someone who has run many superchargers they are VERY EXPENSIVE to install and tune, and they are very finicky. On a hot day (Like every day in California) they put out subpar performance, and can easily blow your engine.
Also don't fool yourself in to thinking you'd pick up with a cam only. If you look at the cam doctor specs the TR224 cam is basically a copy of the MMS 224v2 camshaft. If you picked up 80rwhp with heads+cam+headers, cam+headers only you'd be at ~50-55rwhp.
<small>[ June 03, 2002, 10:09 AM: Message edited by: Terry Burger ]</small>
yes, went w/MMS S2 heads and cam--only gained 80 rwhp w/MACs and tuning. am not very happy. will be switching to LTs for improvement and will switch catback to mufflex. for the same price i could have installed an ATI PC and been completely satisfied. or better yet, drove my car clear over to TR, vacation, stay in 4 star hotel and just go with a cam install for 1/2 the cost for the same gain, if not more!
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I hope you're joking? Take it from someone who has run many superchargers they are VERY EXPENSIVE to install and tune, and they are very finicky. On a hot day (Like every day in California) they put out subpar performance, and can easily blow your engine.
Also don't fool yourself in to thinking you'd pick up with a cam only. If you look at the cam doctor specs the TR224 cam is basically a copy of the MMS 224v2 camshaft. If you picked up 80rwhp with heads+cam+headers, cam+headers only you'd be at ~50-55rwhp.
<small>[ June 03, 2002, 10:09 AM: Message edited by: Terry Burger ]</small>
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