JUISSD

iTrader: (3)

My motor wasn't a big bore LS1, but a stroked LT1. In any case, it was sleeved, and failed within the first 2 months of getting it done. I kept the name of the shop nameless because every time I say something negative about them, it's frowned upon (not just this forum). It seems this particular shop has had run-ins from time to time with customers, while keeping other customers very happy. Why they chose to screw me is anyone's guess. Nothing is shittier than taking a man's money and not honoring your work.

Trevor @ Texas Speed & Perf.

iTrader: (3)

Bad *** LS1 - IF the shop that you're referring to is a sponsor on the board, it's been said that the moderators will not protect our sponsors from something that they've done wrong. We encourage anyone to speak with the sponsor in question first to remedy the situation before blasting them on the board, but if the discussion is done in a civil, mature manner it won't be locked. Everyone has a right to tell their story. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> Stating facts won't get you in trouble.

I think that Joe raises an excellent question! I, too, would definitely like to know the success/failure rate of the resleeved blocks. In all honesty, if I was going for big cubes, I'd do an iron block. It's a lot more cost effective, and the money saved on the sleeves can be spent on a chromoly k-member and a-arms to help offset some of the weight difference. The 6.0L truck blocks are a pretty big bang-for-the-buck IMO for cheap LS1 performance. You could build a 408 cid LS1 iron-block that would make some incredible power and give you plenty of room to spray it if need be.

Crazyquik

How many members here have resleeved blocks?

I count 10?
J.

<small>[ June 09, 2002, 05:58 PM: Message edited by: Crazyquik ]</small>

JUISSD

iTrader: (3)

Well, this matter happened a couple of years ago. I still feel the sting, since I would be SO much further along with mods and such had this been taken care of the right way. The shop is MTI, and I tried to deal with them, but they made up their minds that it was my problem. I know it won't keep people from going to their shop, as they have a huge reputation, and a lot of satisfied customers. The kicker is, I specifically asked them NOT to sleeve the block, but they did, and you know the rest. That was just the end of a very tiresome 5 months. Take it for what it's worth, but I lost a LOT of money, and a LOT of respect for them, and I'll never go back there.

MelloYellow

Wow. I was thinking MTI was one of the few with a good warranty and reputation. So much for that.

I guess the best route is blowing stock cubes, then just replace the damn stocker if/when she blows. I cancelled my all bore and am proceeding this route.

Nine Ball

iTrader: (38)

Joe, we have allowed MANY sponsor-related threads to occur. Don't blame our site for people hiding their "secrets", its not our fault. Our members are fully capable of posting their griefs in a factual and mature manner. Trevor summed it up best:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">We encourage anyone to speak with the sponsor in question first to remedy the situation before blasting them on the board, but if the discussion is done in a civil, mature manner it won't be locked. Everyone has a right to tell their story. Stating facts won't get you in trouble.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I can even email you a copy of the Sponsor guidelines we send to ALL of our potential sponsors that clearly states that we will not "protect" them if our members are stating facts related to the current issue, are not flaming, and keep things civil. All of our sponsors have accepted this.

Bad *** LS1, please inform us of the actual details involving your issue with MTI. If you cared to mention a problem in the first place, then its obvious that you have the desire to express your point of views. We need FACTS to view here, and you might even get a response from the shop since all of their employees check this site regularly. I'm not understanding how you told them not to resleeve a motor, but you bought one anyways? What cube size motor were you buying? Do you realize that anything larger than a 383ci requires a larger bore? Did MTI perform the installation? We need more info please.

My first sleeved 382ci block had coolant issues. It was produced back when MTI was farming out their block work (before they had the machine shop). Quite a few blocks from that batch had coolant use problems. MTI replaced the block under warranty and the second one had no issues. My current 434ci setup only has about 750 miles on it and has not used any coolant. I hope it stays that way! If not, MTI will warranty it.

I'd estimate about 1 out of every 10 resleeved motors has a coolant issue. Not all of them drop sleeves, that is even more rare. The problematic ones just tend to leak coolant past the bottom of the sleeves due to them not being sealed well when the sleeve was inserted. A bottle of stop-leak CAN fix those types of problems, but it can't fix a dropped sleeve at all.

Funny how Joe makes this out to be an X-files controversy. I've seen quite a few people post their issues about sleeved motors on this site and on corvetteforum. Its not like some hidden news in my opinion, its just that not everyone chooses to post about their problems. I know quite a few LS1 owners in the Houston area that do not post on the internet at all, even though they lurk the sites . They don't post good OR bad info, they simply choose not to interact.

Tony

Joe Kizzire

Tony don't get so reved up. Again this ain't about one certain shop... It's about big bore engines in general. Tony you're a good example... When you had the coolant problem I don;t remember you posting anything other than you was getting your engine freshened up and I think that was right before Bowling Green. Correct if I'm wroung.

Tony since you're the resident spokes person for MTI why didn't you come on the board and say there was a problem. That's the thing that gets me. I don't remember any of the shops that builds big bore motors saying "We've got a problem with this liner thing and we're not taking anymore orders until we figure out what's going on."

And one other thing if I put down eighteen thousand dollars for a motor and when it started using coolant I was told to put stopleak it I would be one more pissed off fat man!!!! Again block sealer ain't a fix it's a patch.

MelloYellow

Why wasn't BadAss's MTI under warranty and replaced?

kewlbrz

Tony, IMHO, I would say 1 out 10 is grossly unacceptable for the kind of money spent on these aftermarket motors. I know I wouldn't settle for "stop leak" in any scenario. Seems like there should be a way to pressue test a block to know if its gonna leak or not without sending a customer down the road with a 1 in 10 chance, "cross your fingers", test method.

O6blues

If re-sleeved blocks was the proper method, do you really think GM would be selling $6000 big bore C5R blocks? They would never have went to all that trouble if a simple sleeve would have solved their need for a bigger bore. It is not the correct way to make a big bore block. I know for a fact that they looked at a lot of options. They tried several of them. Kind of like the can of sealer, so are the bigger sleeves in a stock LS1 block -- it is just a patch. Obvisiously some patches are better than others.
Personally before I put sleeves in the aluminum block, I would sleeve the 6.0L iron block if cubic inches was my biggest concern (and on a budget). If I want a guarantee of no leaks -- NO sleeves.
FYI, a GM affiliated engineering shop built two identical engines with the only difference being the blocks -- one cast iron, one aluminum. The cast iron block made 18hp more at peak. Just food for thought!

RAGEman

iTrader: (4)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by O6blues:
<strong>FYI, a GM affiliated engineering shop built two identical engines with the only difference being the blocks -- one cast iron, one aluminum. The cast iron block made 18hp more at peak. Just food for thought!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Why would that be? Just curious, not doubting!

I wonder if that makes up for the weight difference?!?!

Bob2of3

iTrader: (11)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by O6blues:
<strong>FYI, a GM affiliated engineering shop built two identical engines with the only difference being the blocks -- one cast iron, one aluminum. The cast iron block made 18hp more at peak. Just food for thought!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Is there any chance of posting the dyno graphs?

LAter <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

Joe Kizzire

It's probably the expansion rate of the cast iron not being as much contributes some then two different engines is just that different engines.
Now if they had tested ten cast iron and ten aluminum you would have had enough data for a conclusion.

But that's getting off topic.

2001 Pewter WS6

iTrader: (43)

A friend of mine had issues with losing coolant. He also has a big bore. This was the second time he had problems. He dumped a lot of money trying to get the problem fixed.I know he spent some big money on his big bore and hasn't been able to reliably run the car since last summer with his old stock cubes engine. It seems to me that testing of these big bores should have been more thorough for the cost of them. I realize all the big engine builders want to be on the cutting edge and have their product out on the market first, but should at the expense of the consumer. My buddy wanted to remain nameless since he is out a lot of money and is at the mercy of the vendor to get something that will be more reliable. He has been down for months. It would be nice to be able to race with him soon...

Crazyquik

In short, iron holds heat better than alum hence iron makes more power in most cases. Heat = hp.

I've often worried about the differences in the rates of expansion between a cylinder liner (sleeve) and the aluminium block material. I guess when we see more LS1s in the 4 digit hp range, we'll be able to see if a sleeved block will hold up.

J.

Joe Kizzire

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Nine Ball:
<strong>Joe, we have allowed MANY sponsor-related threads to occur. Don't blame our site for people hiding their "secrets", its not our fault. Our members are fully capable of posting their griefs in a factual and mature manner. Trevor summed it up best:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">We encourage anyone to speak with the sponsor in question first to remedy the situation before blasting them on the board, but if the discussion is done in a civil, mature manner it won't be locked. Everyone has a right to tell their story. Stating facts won't get you in trouble.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I can even email you a copy of the Sponsor guidelines we send to ALL of our potential sponsors that clearly states that we will not "protect" them if our members are stating facts related to the current issue, are not flaming, and keep things civil. All of our sponsors have accepted this.

.

Funny how Joe makes this out to be an X-files controversy. I've seen quite a few people post their issues about sleeved motors on this site and on corvetteforum. Its not like some hidden news in my opinion, its just that not everyone chooses to post about their problems. I know quite a few LS1 owners in the Houston area that do not post on the internet at all, even though they lurk the sites . They don't post good OR bad info, they simply choose not to interact.

Tony</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Tony I was refering to the practice on the other board on the closing and deleting of threads. My apoligies for not being clearer.

I think the problem is shared between the shops and the customer. Then again if the customer spoke up the shop would not make a max effort to fix the engine and car would be down for months.

Warrenty is ok but like the man said 1 in 10 (I think it's higher) failure rate is not acceptable. Especially if you live cross country and the car is a every day driver.
I still want to find that big bore motor that's running without any type of block sealer.

<small>[ June 10, 2002, 09:43 AM: Message edited by: Joe Kizzire ]</small>

MattG

3500 miles on my ARE 436ci resleeve and no coolant burning, headgasket, or sleeve issues whatsoever. Also, there has never been any sealant additive added to my engine.

I know ARE had their share of re-sleeving issues a few years back during the development, but they took good care of those customers. I feel, after lots of R&D and sleeve revisions that they have this LS1 resleeving down to a science.

Warbird

As Matt said ARE has solved the leaking issues in their big bore cars. I was one of the first to have a re-sleeved block and I had some very minor issues with leakage, rather than try to repair the leaks with sealer ARE decided to replace the block. I currently have a resleeved 415 low compression motor awaiting a turbo. I have driven about 800 miles on the current block with zero leakage and once again no sealer.

Nick has made some major revisions to his blocks to prevent any leaks and none of the motors has dropped a sleeve. A dropped sleeve can't be repaired and ARE wouldn't even try, that would create a whole new set of reliability issues for the block.

The sleeves ARE uses are a very different design and the boring process is critical to ensure a good integrity. I know ARE has had a couple of blocks tossed in the garbage because he knew they would not work.

I think you will find the new blocks are very reliable, and if sealer is needed the block is no good.

<small>[ June 10, 2002, 11:10 AM: Message edited by: Warbird ]</small>

Pro Stock John

iTrader: (34)

I know of a few other users with resleeved motors that had problems. I believe one of them is still under contention.

Resleeving motors is not a new technology, but perhaps resleeving aluminum blocks is a bit cutting edge, what European cars have aluminum blocks?

I have a 6.0 liter based ARE 422ci stroker. I have never used coolant in a few thousand miles.

Adding 75lbs to the nose of the car is pretty serious if you like dragracing. My car was a tank last year... 11.1 with 3700 raceweight.

PSJ

Terry Burger

iTrader: (4)

It sounds like Joe wants the sponsors to do R&D for him?