White_lightning

Mr Blue SS.. if you didnt figure it out.. ALL the dynos i posted are of supras.. NOT ls1s.

Y2K_WS6_T/A

White_lightning aka David Feldman has great knowledge of Both LS1/LS6 and 2JZ-GTE Combo's. He was one of the first people in the Dallas/Ft Worth Metroplex to have an ARE H/C Package on his T/A. He has since sold that car and has a nice Supra. David has never owned a Ford, and I can attest to that. It would be funny to see him in a Escort or Festiva. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

White_lightning

Thanks for the kind words Y2k
notice.. at no stage did i ever say the ls1/ls6 was a bad motor.. personaly, i loved mine.. 300 rwhp bone stock!!! 426 with just heads/cam boltons through a stock unported maf? several people made 440+ rwhp on heads/cam.i dont know any other stock bottom end Small block ( save for the Lt5) that could match those numbers with out a solid roller.
the Difference between the ls1 and the 2jz is the 2jz comes "built" from the factory. If the ls1 came with a forged crank, hardend rods, coated pistons and 8.5:1 compression.. hell yeah it would be able to hold twice the factory hp stock.

<small>[ June 26, 2002, 09:38 AM: Message edited by: White_lightning ]</small>

Ws6Luvr

iTrader: (1)

SS00Blue-damn man, you really know your stuff!

Why don't the rest of y'all research things before you come on here and start acting like you know something. Oh yea, and nice photoshop jobs on the dyno graphs! Two of those Dyno graphs are LS1 dyno graphs, and they are bolt on cars (stock Internal) at that! Morons.
I have never witnessed, nor heard of any ls1 having any issues. My Neighbor has Twin T88's on his bone stock Ls1 (he had to modify his airbox to accomodate them though), and he runs 37 psi on pump gas all day long-show me any other motor that can do that....

sheesh, the nerve of some of y'all!!!

Rainman
Ws6Luvr

TAMUz06

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Ws6Luvr:
<strong>SS00Blue-damn man, you really know your stuff!

Why don't the rest of y'all research things before you come on here and start acting like you know something. Oh yea, and nice photoshop jobs on the dyno graphs! Two of those Dyno graphs are LS1 dyno graphs, and they are bolt on cars (stock Internal) at that! Morons.
I have never witnessed, nor heard of any ls1 having any issues. My Neighbor has Twin T88's on his bone stock Ls1 (he had to modify his airbox to accomodate them though), and he runs 37 psi on pump gas all day long-show me any other motor that can do that....

sheesh, the nerve of some of y'all!!!

Rainman
Ws6Luvr</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"><img src="http://64.208.21.183/Jim/Pics/Smilies/hail.gif" alt=" - " /> <img border="0" alt="[Z06 Corvette]" title="" src="graemlins/z06.gif" />

LMAO!

Ws6Luvr

iTrader: (1)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by TAMUz06:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Ws6Luvr:
<strong>SS00Blue-damn man, you really know your stuff!

Why don't the rest of y'all research things before you come on here and start acting like you know something. Oh yea, and nice photoshop jobs on the dyno graphs! Two of those Dyno graphs are LS1 dyno graphs, and they are bolt on cars (stock Internal) at that! Morons.
I have never witnessed, nor heard of any ls1 having any issues. My Neighbor has Twin T88's on his bone stock Ls1 (he had to modify his airbox to accomodate them though), and he runs 37 psi on pump gas all day long-show me any other motor that can do that....

sheesh, the nerve of some of y'all!!!

Rainman
Ws6Luvr</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"><img src="http://64.208.21.183/Jim/Pics/Smilies/hail.gif" alt=" - " /> <img border="0" alt="[Z06 Corvette]" title="" src="graemlins/z06.gif" />

LMAO!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">what the hell are you laughing at you 16 year old punk kid whose mommy bought him his Z0SLOW. You better shut up or me and SS00Blue are gonna come to DFW and stomp a mud hole in your ***. You think just because you drive a Ls6, that you are a bad *** or something? It's ignorant Car enthusiasts like you and Feldbitch that don't know anything, or have ANY personal experience with them. y'all don't know about Ls1's and you should sell your cars and buy family cars. I personally have built over 3 Ls1 motors myself (well just stengthened them up, cause we were doing twin t 100's, and the ls1 can take it of course, it's just we wanted to be extra sure it would), and they have absolutely NO flaws in them. There was a rumor awhile back about people who got their blocks magnafluxed and their were cracks in their blocks, but that was sabotage by jap junkers, i have video. Then there was this report of burning oil, pfffft, no way! it was those liberal crybabies that wanted to sabotage GM!
At least you did one thing right TAMU, and had mommy buy you a Z06, maybe you can teach feldslut what domestic power is all about. He's so wrapped up in his heap of rice crap, that i'll bet he's never even driven a ls1, cause if he did, he would ditch his POOPra in a hearbeat and buy a Ls1 and put a T-72 on the stock shortblock and run it for years on end with no problems.

i'm sick and tired of you morons that think they know everything.

Dom (FATF)
Ws6Luvr

Dave

Keep in mind that inline 4 and 6 cylinder engines have more bearings than cylinders, so they can stand more squeeze. Also lower reciprocating mass and 4-valve heads help with the high-end.

Nevermind inflated peak HP/liter numbers - how much normally aspirated TORQUE per liter can you make? Duhhhh.... This is where street cars live, and that's where the LS1 shines. Look at those curves you have for those twin turbocharged megabuck Supras. How much torque do they make at 200 RPM, where most highway driving is done? 3000 RPM?
Do you suppose they got those monster numbers by just reprogramming their ECUs to provide more boost? It took LOTS of money. Spend enough and even a Honda can go fast, albeit not for very long. Sure there are 10 second Hondas; they cost as much as a condominium, burn race gas and have to be trailered to and from the track. No doubt the Honda emblem on the fender is OEM, but not likely much else is! 10 second daily driven Camaros are old news.
The import racers are more a political movement than a genuine desire to build practical fast cars. Like watching dogs walk on their hind legs, the wonder isn't that they do it well, rather that they can do it at all...

my rant for the day! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="gr_tounge.gif" />

fastlif

iTrader: (1)

i wish i still had the pic but...

argueing over the internet is like winning the special olympics...even if you win..you are still retarded!

guys they are differnt beasts each good in there own way. just enjoy what you have and respect others. I am in the market for supra as we speak but ilove my vette and SS. you have to respect each for what it is.....they ALL have faults.

okay thats all i have to say about that.

98blackSS

Well said Dave <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" />

Slart

I'm with soooblue.

The LS1 is an incredeble NA engine. In factory form it strikes a great compromise between power, reliability, and efficiency.

There are some issues (like piston slap and bent pushrods) but these were necessary engineering compromises to meet efficiency requirements. The engine could certainly be built with more durable parts, but it'd make less power and get worse mileage.

Those who think the LS1 should have been designed with heavier duty parts from the factory should swap out their LS1 for a 396 BBC, because that's exactly what you're asking for. You'd never hurt an iron block, iron head, iron intake, 7/16" rocker stud, 3" main, 396 at 350rwhp. Of course you'd get terrible mileage, you'd never pass modern emissions requirements, and the car would handle terribly.

Engineering is about more than making power. It's about striking comproimse.

If the LS1 isn't capable of making double it's stock power it does not mean it's designed badly. It means it's designed with more than one thing in mind. If all you care about is durability at 700hp, then destroke a side oiler 427 (ford) to 352" and be done with it.

Making a comprison as to whether a LS1 or a factory artificially aspirated motor can be modified to make more power is silly. The artificilly aspirated motor has to be much more durable to survive so it has heavier duty parts, which makes it more suitable to very high horsepower levels, but keep in mind that by overdesigning it they are decreasing efficiency and increasing weight.

- Steve

<small>[ June 27, 2002, 07:38 AM: Message edited by: Slart ]</small>

Ws6Luvr

iTrader: (1)

in this arguement, no one said the Ls1 is a horrible motor. Hell it's one of the best motors ever designed by GM, aside from the cadillac northstar motors. It's when you compare the Ls1 to a motor like the 2JZ which was designed in 1993 that it is far less superior. I am a diehard Ls1 fan, always have been, always will be-but i also realize that they do not even come close to comparing with japanese motors as far as engineering goes. It's not a difficult motor... good flowing heads, good design of the motor. Complicated? Nope. Well engineered? yes, in it's own right. among the top engineered? not at all. I think that's where this arguement went astray when people started comparing it to jap motors which are way more engineered than domestic engines. anyway i'm ranting. good day <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

Nitin

MIGHTYMOUSE

iTrader: (59)

shouldnt this thread be about the pcv system or something other than supras? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="gr_tounge.gif" />

so what if we havent tripled our stock hp output.. that means our engines started off that much better off the showroom floor than the import crap.

heres one for you..

feast your eyes on this motor.. over 10 hp per cubic inch.. most ever so far in an ls1 is about 2.3 hp/ci ...but this one is naturally aspirated!!(race gas)

web page

sheesh, compare apples to apples.

my vote for the ls1's weak links are the pcv system and the stock rod bolts

RICE ETR

iTrader: (3)

Couldn't agree more with MIGHTYMOUSE.

I would also like to add the reason why these small import engines can make double the factory power has a lot to do with the fact that they have smaller parts...so a smaller part using the same material as the larger parts, have less weight AND most importantly the same density, will be able to spin much higher RPM's and withstand the forces required to double their original output.

Think about, same reason R/C plane/gas truck engines can make a HUGE amount of power and spin up to insane RPM's with respect to their size.

The density example is thsame idea as to why there could never be a "giant" human...due to the fact that we would crush under our own weight.

I think(and this is from a a diehard Ford guy) the Ls1 engine has to be one of the best designs as far as simplicity and power output/possible output. A few weak points such as the PCV and the rod bolts as mentioned, but what engine doesn't have issues.

LS1derfull

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by SS00Blue:
<strong>Well, these characters obviously push their bullets ALOT harder than intended. The stock equipment is more than adequate for the intended 350RWHP task. The oil pumps have been known to fail suddenly, but the numbers of failed parts don't really qualify them as "failure prone".

Weak springs, true. But when did Chevy ever design an adequate spring?

Rockers don't fail in great enough numbers to suggest it's more than an acceptable failure rate WITH STOCK LIFT CAMS. I haven't heard of any failing without some help from the "more power" virus. Like .550 and above lifts with "slam on the seat" ramp rates.

Rod bolts are adequate for the stock power, but I'd look into some replacements for significant power upgrades.

Remember, these guys push the envelope. So calling stock parts "crap" is just an uninformed, and subjective opinion.

There is WAY more engineering involved in these engines, especially in pairing weight from individual components, than some "slam-in-a-cam", "whine-for-forged-pistons" part-timer could EVER understand. YOUR government has imposed these weaknesses by way of emmissions and minumum fuel economy regulations, not the automotive designers.

NO stock engine is built to withstand 2x horsepower increases or 1000 max RPM increases without shortblock work, just so the VAST MINORITY of us can modify them with no thought of shortblock longevity. That sort of factory spec would push the cost of engines out of reach. The LS1/LS6, in that case, would just be admired by guys like us, because only multi-millionaires could afford them... It's just ignorant and obsurd to expect that sort of engine integrity in a stock power plant.

Get real! Try to get reasonable in expectations.

SC</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">AMEN! i couldnt have said this better, two thumbs up! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />

LS1derfull

I dont know why we have to listen to LS1 bashing on here,dont own one?, dont like them?Love rice? then take your jealousy elsewhere. Most foreign cars are just an appliance to their owners just like a micro wave oven or a dishwasher, i feel pride, enthusiasm, and the need to be challenged and compete with my Fbody.American muscle has a soul that all the boost in the world on a stock bottomend cant produce, so i say prove your **** somewhere else.

Nine Ball

iTrader: (38)

Please start another thread if you are interested in continuing, this thread is toooo long <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

Thanks,
Tony