GeorgeC

One more thing you can check if all else fails...

Remove the cam you just installed, and compare the reluctor rings on the back of the cam (which is what the cam position sensor gets it's signal from). Make sure that they are both oriented in the same way.

Belive it or not, I had a bad cam where these were 180deg. out from each other and pretty much exhibited the same symptoms as you're having. A defective cam does get sent out from time to time...

GeorgeC

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by 98blackSS:
<strong>Visceral, how could that be? Is the firing fed off of the cam or crank postion sensor? Seems that would be a sensor related function and not a cam to crank alignment. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The ignition is referenced off of the cam sensor. The crank sensor really only calculates misfires AFAIK...

SS00Blue

How's it going in the land of cam position?

I'm hoping that there's no collateral damage to your valves. Any progress? The whole of the LS1 F-Body world is holding it's breath...

SC

98blackSS

Your valves should be closed during the compression stroke (as the piston is coming up to TDC). But if the piston is coming up on it's exhaust stroke, then one of your valves, obviously the exhuast, should be open. Cycle through a couple of times to see what I mean on the motor.

Ryoga

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by 98blackSS:
<strong>Your valves should be closed during the compression stroke (as the piston is coming up to TDC). But if the piston is coming up on it's exhaust stroke, then one of your valves, obviously the exhuast, should be open. Cycle through a couple of times to see what I mean on the motor.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The first valve was going down when the piston came up and then the valve started to come back up as the piston went down.

black00WS6

when did the 2nd valve start moving?

http://www.compcams.com/information/tutorials/

check this out to see if we're 180* off

98blackSS

What about on the next cycle? There's two times where the piston is coming up on it's stroke. Compression and exhaust.

<small>[ June 17, 2002, 12:16 PM: Message edited by: 98blackSS ]</small>

black00WS6

how could it be out of timing if I made sure I put the cam in the exact way it came out?? We didnt turn the crank while it was out either. <img border="0" alt="[guns]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_guns.gif" /> cars

Ryoga

Alright.... I'm confused now... Someone tell me how I can identify what the TDC position is using a screwdriver, removed spark plug from cylinder #1, the valve covers removed, and a wrench on the crank bolt.

I'm not familar with how to tell the strokes, and just looked at a web page that messed me up worse.

98blackSS

Turn the motor over by hand, monitoring the motion of the piston. Use that tutorial as a guide to see where the valves should be. There are 4 different strokes, so there will be 2 different times where the piston will be coming up to it's maximum height. When it's at it's top most position, the valves will either be totally closed, "OR" the exhaust valve will be open and intake valve closed. I'm not a motor expert so someone jump in and cry BS if you see an error. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

Visceral

iTrader: (1)

well...if you are 180 degrees off on the cam (360 degrees off on the crank), the valve/piston action looks good. Problem is that the spark fires at the totally wrong time. When you say you put the cam-crank timing gears dot to dot, do you mean the dot on the cam was at precisely 6 oclock when the dot on the crank was at precisely 12 oclock? They must be as close at they can be to each other for all the timing to be correct. ALso make sure that the cam timing gear was put on so as to let the button go in the hole. (its hard to put it on any other way).

Double check ls1.fbody.com and look at the instructions there and the pictures.

\chris

98blackSS

Or, in other words:

Compression stroke = both valves closed

Exhaust stroke = Exhaust valve open, Intake valve closed

Both of these are instances where the piston is moving to it's highest position.

The other 2 strokes are intake and power (moving down)

Ryoga

Well, we ripped it open and it was at least 30 degrees off... That's all good and great now, but things have gone for the worse... The crank is now stripped! The bolt just spins when we tighten it.... The bolt is new and looks good, it just pulls out metal shavings. The pulley isn't keyed is it? What in the WORLD caused it to strip. I thought the thing was good for more pressure than that... What to do now!?!?!?

LS1x2

iTrader: (11)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Ryoga:
<strong>Well, we ripped it open and it was at least 30 degrees off... That's all good and great now, but things have gone for the worse... The crank is now stripped! The bolt just spins when we tighten it.... The bolt is new and looks good, it just pulls out metal shavings. The pulley isn't keyed is it? What in the WORLD caused it to strip. I thought the thing was good for more pressure than that... What to do now!?!?!?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Get a new bolt, re-tap the crank and hope it works. I know of a car it worked on before.

<small>[ June 18, 2002, 08:47 AM: Message edited by: 4mulaJoe ]</small>

Richard@WCCH

iTrader: (3)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> The crank is now stripped! The bolt just spins when we tighten it.... The bolt is new and looks good, it just pulls out metal shavings. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">There's probably some usable threads left deep in the bolt hole. Try and locate a slightly longer bolt to grab the remaining good threads.

Good luck, we're all counting on you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

Ryoga

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by headbam:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> The crank is now stripped! The bolt just spins when we tighten it.... The bolt is new and looks good, it just pulls out metal shavings. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">There's probably some usable threads left deep in the bolt hole. Try and locate a slightly longer bolt to grab the remaining good threads.

Good luck, we're all counting on you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">where in the world do I find a longer and as high a grade bolt as that one to fit?

SS00Blue

In the land of low tech, where I live, a fine thread, grade 8 fastener (any hardware store sells these) works just fine at 200ft-lbs. I don't want this to be construed as a legally liable suggestion, but that's what low brow cro-magnons like me used to use.

You may consider going with the previous suggestion that you retap as close to the original hole size as posible, while giving a good thread depth.

"Go Team" on the cam revelation! I'm glad you have the major situation handled.

SC

<small>[ June 18, 2002, 09:18 AM: Message edited by: SS00Blue ]</small>

black00WS6

I think the cam god is saying a cam doesnt belong in your car and to sell it to get a 2002 Z06 <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

j/k, need me to come over tonight to help ya some more? I can hold off on my clutch issues.

Ryoga

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by black00WS6:
<strong>I think the cam god is saying a cam doesnt belong in your car and to sell it to get a 2002 Z06 <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

j/k, need me to come over tonight to help ya some more? I can hold off on my clutch issues.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Maybe so, I'm really BAD out of my element. I don't have a clue as to how to 'tap' it or where in the world to purchase longer bolt like this one.. I'm just getting in all this deeper and deeper, lol.

rom3

Somebody jump all over me if I'm wrong here, but...

If you can locate a longer bolt of the same size, I don't think it has to be grade 8 or anything since all you want to do with the longer bolt is get the pulley started on it's way back down the crank snout so you can get the original bolt in there (take the new longer bolt out first) with enough thread to push it the rest of the way down. The original bolt is not protruding far enough into the crank to get a good amount of threads to grip. Then on to the torque sequence - old bolt to such and such, then new bolt to such and such (like my technical torque sequence? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> ) Somebody have the real procedure?

Go team, go!!!