Oil rings affected by cam install?
Re: Oil rings affected by cam install? I have consulted a few local guys. After the PCV gets brought up, valve stem seals come up. When I mentioned they were reinstalled, they just trip over their words because they have no idea after that.
But please ask, you never know when you will find a smart one. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />
Eric
But please ask, you never know when you will find a smart one. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />
Eric
Staging Lane
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 83
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From: Knoxville TN
Re: Oil rings affected by cam install? ok,here's the dilly on the oil! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />
started out with 10/30 castrol syntec...car never used oil...put in cam,started using oil...got tired of putting oil in it all the time and switched over to 20/50 castrol syntec....it helped alittle bit.... ran it forever until today,switched back to the 10/30 to see if the oil consumption had been improved any....i can already tell you the answer is no...it went right back to the old oil consumption.
gonna switch to a straight 50 weight and see how that does...i will do this one day this week
today we richened the car way up and was running race fuel...had no KR but it had no effect on the smoking problem.
as for the seals....i did use the right parts from GM. The old valve seals looked fine to begin with <img border="0" title="" alt="[Sad]" src="gr_sad.gif" />
the car has the stock pulley on it, the heads have not been touched other than valve seals... i have no idea if the valve guides are worn out or not, do not know how to check them, however my oil burning is in all cylinders and tend to not believe that this would be the case for me....
interested to know, of all the people who are burning alot of oil after the cam install? have any of you pulled your plugs and checked to see which cylinders are doing it....all of mine looked the same, both banks the same, even with the pcv unhooked, and no way for oil to get thru the intake.
I have talked to many site sponsers and seemed to have them all stumped <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />
We will work thru this one way or the other....just hope it doesn't break the bank first <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
started out with 10/30 castrol syntec...car never used oil...put in cam,started using oil...got tired of putting oil in it all the time and switched over to 20/50 castrol syntec....it helped alittle bit.... ran it forever until today,switched back to the 10/30 to see if the oil consumption had been improved any....i can already tell you the answer is no...it went right back to the old oil consumption.
gonna switch to a straight 50 weight and see how that does...i will do this one day this week
today we richened the car way up and was running race fuel...had no KR but it had no effect on the smoking problem.
as for the seals....i did use the right parts from GM. The old valve seals looked fine to begin with <img border="0" title="" alt="[Sad]" src="gr_sad.gif" />
the car has the stock pulley on it, the heads have not been touched other than valve seals... i have no idea if the valve guides are worn out or not, do not know how to check them, however my oil burning is in all cylinders and tend to not believe that this would be the case for me....
interested to know, of all the people who are burning alot of oil after the cam install? have any of you pulled your plugs and checked to see which cylinders are doing it....all of mine looked the same, both banks the same, even with the pcv unhooked, and no way for oil to get thru the intake.
I have talked to many site sponsers and seemed to have them all stumped <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />
We will work thru this one way or the other....just hope it doesn't break the bank first <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
TECH Resident
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 917
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From: Chattanooga,Tn
Re: Oil rings affected by cam install? Eric, WHere did he get the seals? Right from gm? on an ls-1 the exhaust seals are different than the intake seals.I havnt messed with them in about a year but if memory serves me correct the exhaust seals are red on the inside and the the intakes are black. Make sure he got the right seals installed on the right the valves.
Launching!
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 271
Likes: 0
From: Wilmington DE
Re: Oil rings affected by cam install? I don't believe this is an LS1 related issue at all. I currently am going through the same kind of problem on a small block chevy. Used a bit of oil before, did a roller cam, and had the heads ported. Have teflon valve seals on it, and everything looked good. However it now uses a quart of oil in about 150 miles. WAY more then it used to use. Plus it likes to smoke at idle, and also under WOT. I have some different valve seals for it, but have a feeling they might not help too much.
I just use regular Penzoil 10w-40 in mine. With the oil usage, synthetic would be a bit too expensive for my taste. I hope this doesn't turn out to be a ring issue, I really don't want to pull the engine again and dump more money into it....
Jim
I just use regular Penzoil 10w-40 in mine. With the oil usage, synthetic would be a bit too expensive for my taste. I hope this doesn't turn out to be a ring issue, I really don't want to pull the engine again and dump more money into it....
Jim
Teching In
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 27
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Re: Oil rings affected by cam install? I tend to think this is a RPM related issue. My car never smoked until I started turning some high RPM's with the new cam and heads.
I think the rings flutter at high piston speeds, and cause the rings to not seal correctly
And, for the survey, I have LS6 springs with home ported heads, and a LS1 hotcam.
This is really getting old, I think I will tear mine down and check all the clearances and re-ring it.
I think the rings flutter at high piston speeds, and cause the rings to not seal correctly
And, for the survey, I have LS6 springs with home ported heads, and a LS1 hotcam.
This is really getting old, I think I will tear mine down and check all the clearances and re-ring it.
Teching In
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 39
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From: HOUSTON, TX
Re: Oil rings affected by cam install? I thought I was running really rich but after reading all of this, looks like I'm going thru the same thing.
The Hammer Cam/MAC(ORY) combo is untuned in my car and it smokes blackish/brown like crazy at WOT. It also smells like unburnt fuel. Aside from the smoke and the smell, the car runs real smooth and strong.
Hm....now it's got me thinking.....
Frank
The Hammer Cam/MAC(ORY) combo is untuned in my car and it smokes blackish/brown like crazy at WOT. It also smells like unburnt fuel. Aside from the smoke and the smell, the car runs real smooth and strong.
Hm....now it's got me thinking.....
Frank
Re: Oil rings affected by cam install? </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by rrheads.com:
<strong>I tend to think this is a RPM related issue. My car never smoked until I started turning some high RPM's with the new cam and heads.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It might be on some, but I'm turning 6,800 RPM's w/ next to no oil consumption. I think the high RPM's will accelerate the oil usage if you already have the problem, but I don't necessarily think that's the culprit of the oil usage. JMO
<strong>I tend to think this is a RPM related issue. My car never smoked until I started turning some high RPM's with the new cam and heads.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It might be on some, but I'm turning 6,800 RPM's w/ next to no oil consumption. I think the high RPM's will accelerate the oil usage if you already have the problem, but I don't necessarily think that's the culprit of the oil usage. JMO
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Re: Oil rings affected by cam install? not sure about the rings, but what I am sure is that on the 98's the oil pump is prone to fail specially after a cam swap, such as mine did and many others. I would install a new oil pump or have yours ported before you lose your bottom end.... <img border="0" alt="[Firebird]" title="" src="graemlins/formula.gif" />
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Re: Oil rings affected by cam install? oh yeah , and Ls1's burn alot of oil, like a qrt every 2000 miles or less...I have learned alot after a spun bearing....check your oil regularly... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Firebird]" title="" src="graemlins/formula.gif" />
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 308
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From: Midland Texas
Re: Oil rings affected by cam install? Mine burns or uses 1 qt. every 100 or so miles I used Mobil one switched to Royal Purple 20/50 no diff. I have comp. 918s.
I was told that perhaps this could be bad valve train geometry or a bad cam cut. I changed heads no good, changed PVC valve no good I have a maf translater and tryed running it richer and leaner no good. I am fixen to cure my problem and trade this SOB off and make it the dealers problem. I cant afford to pull the motor and rering it.
I was told that perhaps this could be bad valve train geometry or a bad cam cut. I changed heads no good, changed PVC valve no good I have a maf translater and tryed running it richer and leaner no good. I am fixen to cure my problem and trade this SOB off and make it the dealers problem. I cant afford to pull the motor and rering it.
Re: Oil rings affected by cam install? I guess I'll join the Club..
1qt per 800-1000 miles (depends on how hard its run)
Engine got New Rings per TSB on oil consumption before H/C swap.
New Heads GTP Ported Stage II (Rocker Arm Bolt Bosses Teflon Pasted)/CC918 Springs/TR 220 Cam/Crane Lifters/CC 7.40 Pushrods/Stock Exhaust
*Noticed carbon buildup from oil blowby during swap
*Oil in Intake ports doing LS6 intake swap after
H/C
* Went from Mobil 1 5W-30 to 10W30 then to dino Valvoline 10W-30 No Change
* Tried Truck PCV Valve got worse
* Have not been able to tune out KR I am getting above 5K RPM. (Oil diluting fuel charge ?)
* Get small puff blue smoke at start (Seals/Guides ?)
* Get Puff at heavy load acceleration (rings ?), although it is not a fogger
* Get Puff at deceleration High Vacuum (PCV ?)
* Plugs are not fouling
* Heavy Valvetrain Noise
Next up leakdown test. At least 1qt of dino oil is cheap. It just like having a 2 stroke motor gas and oil together at fill up.
<small>[ July 02, 2002, 07:53 PM: Message edited by: Batmobile/SS ]</small>
1qt per 800-1000 miles (depends on how hard its run)
Engine got New Rings per TSB on oil consumption before H/C swap.
New Heads GTP Ported Stage II (Rocker Arm Bolt Bosses Teflon Pasted)/CC918 Springs/TR 220 Cam/Crane Lifters/CC 7.40 Pushrods/Stock Exhaust
*Noticed carbon buildup from oil blowby during swap
*Oil in Intake ports doing LS6 intake swap after
H/C
* Went from Mobil 1 5W-30 to 10W30 then to dino Valvoline 10W-30 No Change
* Tried Truck PCV Valve got worse
* Have not been able to tune out KR I am getting above 5K RPM. (Oil diluting fuel charge ?)
* Get small puff blue smoke at start (Seals/Guides ?)
* Get Puff at heavy load acceleration (rings ?), although it is not a fogger
* Get Puff at deceleration High Vacuum (PCV ?)
* Plugs are not fouling
* Heavy Valvetrain Noise
Next up leakdown test. At least 1qt of dino oil is cheap. It just like having a 2 stroke motor gas and oil together at fill up.
<small>[ July 02, 2002, 07:53 PM: Message edited by: Batmobile/SS ]</small>
Re: Oil rings affected by cam install? Brian has went back to the stock cam and still suffers from the "smoking" condition. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Sad]" src="gr_sad.gif" /> That sucks!
Also, we got rid of his KR problem (while the hot cam was still in it) with race gas (50/50 110 leaded with 93 octane).
Small update.
ERic
Also, we got rid of his KR problem (while the hot cam was still in it) with race gas (50/50 110 leaded with 93 octane).
Small update.
ERic
TECH Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 10,341
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Re: Oil rings affected by cam install? Did you have cold piston slap? Maybe the pistons have worn away the bores from slapping around in there cold and now with the cam the oil consumption issue is aggravated from the higher cylinder pressure forcing more oil past the rings??
Just a thought
Chris
Just a thought
Chris
TECH Fanatic
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From: Huntersville, NC near Charlotte
Re: Oil rings affected by cam install? I have a 98 Z28 with 64k miles on it and I burn about 2 1/2 quarts every 3k miles. It didn't start to happen until after we installed my B1 cam set-up. I get the same blowby smoke out the Borla at WOT. I'm really starting to hate my car because of this so if anyone knows how to fix it please give us the info. I do love the way my car feels with the cam but the smoke screen is getting old.
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,975
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From: SW Florida
Re: Oil rings affected by cam install? SlowLS1.....
Were you the guy that had TEA do a valve job on your stock heads and then wanted to install a set of old used valves in it because TEA sent you back your newly machined heads minus the new valves? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />
[Quote: SlowLS1] "the heads have not been touched other than valve seals"
I just read this in one of your posts here. That must have been someone else.
I wont even venture to say what is wrong, but I find it extremely hard to believe that changing out the cam would result in the ring pack from not sealing the cyl bores [immmediatly] following the cam swap.
Good Luck with it,
Ron
<small>[ July 24, 2002, 11:31 PM: Message edited by: Kimchee and Rice ]</small>
Were you the guy that had TEA do a valve job on your stock heads and then wanted to install a set of old used valves in it because TEA sent you back your newly machined heads minus the new valves? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />
[Quote: SlowLS1] "the heads have not been touched other than valve seals"
I just read this in one of your posts here. That must have been someone else.
I wont even venture to say what is wrong, but I find it extremely hard to believe that changing out the cam would result in the ring pack from not sealing the cyl bores [immmediatly] following the cam swap.
Good Luck with it,
Ron
<small>[ July 24, 2002, 11:31 PM: Message edited by: Kimchee and Rice ]</small>
Teching In
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 27
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Re: Oil rings affected by cam install? Just wanted to follow up with this thread. I spoke to an engineer at Total seal about oil consumption issues with the LS1 and he recommended two changes. The stock piston does not have oil return holes in the oil ring land. Drill 4 or 5- 5/64 holes in the land valley to promote oil drainback, and use a higher tension oil ring. The stock oil ring is not effective past 5500 or so.
Hope this helps. My car is being taken apart now in my garage, I am gonna use a total seal gapless top ring, standard second ring, and higher tension oil ring. I am also gonna drill oil return holes in the new pistons and go with a .005 clean up.
I will let you all know if it controls the issue.
Hope this helps. My car is being taken apart now in my garage, I am gonna use a total seal gapless top ring, standard second ring, and higher tension oil ring. I am also gonna drill oil return holes in the new pistons and go with a .005 clean up.
I will let you all know if it controls the issue.
Launching!
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 271
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From: Wilmington DE
Re: Oil rings affected by cam install? Well, I know the engine that I have been having the smoking/oil issue with is not an LS1, but I did get mine straightened out. Took it to the track the other week, and it didn't do as good as I expected, and seemed to be smoking a bit more then usual. Spent the next day doing a compression test followed by a leakdown test. I figured I would find a bad cyliner or something, but everything turned out to be in excellent shape. So I spent a couple nights last week swapping my teflon valve seals for some rubber ones. Fired it up and no more smoking. Had it out last night so I could check in the headlights of cars behind me, and no more smoke. Hopefully some of you other guys have had some luck.
Jim
Jim