Poor dyno results on Stage 2 heads and cam, what next?
07-18-2002, 07:19 PM
#21
Re: Poor dyno results on Stage 2 heads and cam, what next? </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by akw408:
Do people usually have to remove their cats to hit 400RWHP?[/QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I don't know for sure, but most combo's I have seen hit 400+rwhp do NOT have cats.
Do people usually have to remove their cats to hit 400RWHP?[/QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I don't know for sure, but most combo's I have seen hit 400+rwhp do NOT have cats.
07-18-2002, 08:28 PM
#22
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Re: Poor dyno results on Stage 2 heads and cam, what next? </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Alonzo:
<strong>Contact ARE I have seen a few posts about low dyno numbers and they are actually sending out new revised heads to their customers which is very nice of them.I read some where in a another post and the guy picked up a lot of power.All you have to do is pay shipping charges.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I'm the guy. Nick sent me his most current iteration of LS6 heads and a 230/230 .591 112 Comp Cams cam to replace my 224/224/114 setup after I was disappointed with my prior setup. I've not yet dialed this in with updated Ed Wright programming (pending as I write this) but you can see the results in my sig. I should add that he was willing to help me with this as I had somewhat lower than anticipated results with a fairly recent package. He felt he had made progress since then, and was willing to share that with me. Clearly, H/C packages a year or more ago, from any vendor, were not making the power they are now. So, for an older setup, I suspect outputs in the high 300's are fair enough. The bar is higher now, and I am greatful that Nick was willing to carry some of the cost of my getting there.
<strong>Contact ARE I have seen a few posts about low dyno numbers and they are actually sending out new revised heads to their customers which is very nice of them.I read some where in a another post and the guy picked up a lot of power.All you have to do is pay shipping charges.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I'm the guy. Nick sent me his most current iteration of LS6 heads and a 230/230 .591 112 Comp Cams cam to replace my 224/224/114 setup after I was disappointed with my prior setup. I've not yet dialed this in with updated Ed Wright programming (pending as I write this) but you can see the results in my sig. I should add that he was willing to help me with this as I had somewhat lower than anticipated results with a fairly recent package. He felt he had made progress since then, and was willing to share that with me. Clearly, H/C packages a year or more ago, from any vendor, were not making the power they are now. So, for an older setup, I suspect outputs in the high 300's are fair enough. The bar is higher now, and I am greatful that Nick was willing to carry some of the cost of my getting there.
07-19-2002, 02:53 PM
#23
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Re: Poor dyno results on Stage 2 heads and cam, what next? </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by SPEED DOG:
I'm the guy. Nick sent me his most current iteration of LS6 heads and a 230/230 .591 112 Comp Cams cam to replace my 224/224/114 setup after I was disappointed with my prior setup. I've not yet dialed this in with updated Ed Wright programming (pending as I write this) but you can see the results in my sig. I should add that he was willing to help me with this as I had somewhat lower than anticipated results with a fairly recent package. He felt he had made progress since then, and was willing to share that with me. Clearly, H/C packages a year or more ago, from any vendor, were not making the power they are now. So, for an older setup, I suspect outputs in the high 300's are fair enough. The bar is higher now, and I am greatful that Nick was willing to carry some of the cost of my getting there.[/QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">What was your prior setup and how disappointed were you? This is not that old a setup, I received the heads last December and had everything installed by February. What's the best way to get a hold of Nick? I tried calling him a few times but he doesn't pick up the phone and his mailbox is full. Should I just send him an email? Tell him to take a look at this thread?
<small>[ July 19, 2002, 02:58 PM: Message edited by: akw408 ]</small>
I'm the guy. Nick sent me his most current iteration of LS6 heads and a 230/230 .591 112 Comp Cams cam to replace my 224/224/114 setup after I was disappointed with my prior setup. I've not yet dialed this in with updated Ed Wright programming (pending as I write this) but you can see the results in my sig. I should add that he was willing to help me with this as I had somewhat lower than anticipated results with a fairly recent package. He felt he had made progress since then, and was willing to share that with me. Clearly, H/C packages a year or more ago, from any vendor, were not making the power they are now. So, for an older setup, I suspect outputs in the high 300's are fair enough. The bar is higher now, and I am greatful that Nick was willing to carry some of the cost of my getting there.[/QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">What was your prior setup and how disappointed were you? This is not that old a setup, I received the heads last December and had everything installed by February. What's the best way to get a hold of Nick? I tried calling him a few times but he doesn't pick up the phone and his mailbox is full. Should I just send him an email? Tell him to take a look at this thread?
<small>[ July 19, 2002, 02:58 PM: Message edited by: akw408 ]</small>
07-19-2002, 03:02 PM
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Re: Poor dyno results on Stage 2 heads and cam, what next? Any ideas about the installation? I know it's tough to say, but is there anything that could have been done wrong that would account for missing 30-40RWHP? As you can see from the dyno graph, the car feels great, smooth. No PCM codes either.
07-19-2002, 07:19 PM
#25
Re: Poor dyno results on Stage 2 heads and cam, what next? My set-up was fairly new and was supposedly an upgrade from his previous heads. My times are decent, so I haven't worried about dyno #s too much, but I do know others on the same dyno have put down well over 400 RWHP and Nick himself thought I would have seen another 10HP or so. Nick has offered to work with me on the cam issue, so I have no complaints with ARE. I just haven't decided what to do. Going over 224 starts to get tough when emissions testing could be an issue.
07-19-2002, 08:13 PM
#26
Re: Poor dyno results on Stage 2 heads and cam, what next? My .02 worth from <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> reading <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> about ARE and other set ups for the last four years. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />
First
Are folks with ARE heads that are disappointed, sure their transmissions/clutchs aren't slipping? A slipping transmission/clutch could easily eat up 20-30 or more rwhp. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" />
Second
I thought it was generally reconized that ARE Stage 2 heads were more race only oriented than almost anyone elses. I've heard it said many times ARE Stage I's are equal to most others Stage II's. Likewise, an ARE Stage II head is set up more like someone else Stage III race only head might be. In other words, one would expect ARE Stage II's to be hogged out heads with big valves to work with big cams. Nick always said most people don't use enough cam in his opinion. His set ups that make power seem to take 226/234 as said before.
If I had ARE Stage II's I'd try a proven ARE cam because ARE heads are probably matched to work best with ARE type cams...big split duration cams. If the power was still low with ARE Stage II's, ARE matched cam, tuning, and a solid transmission...someone should be <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="gr_emb.gif" /> and I don't mean the car owner...
Third
Looks like more than one ARE Stage II heads and non-ARE cam set up is making about the same power as a good well tuned cam only set up. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />
Anyone with disappointing results game for putting the stock heads back on with good springs and seeing if the power is about the same with a cam only as it was with the ARE Stage II's and non-ARE cam?
Fourth
If passing emissions are an issue, I'd look to other proven set ups than make power with a small to medium cam. <img border="0" alt="[Fluffy]" title="" src="graemlins/fluffy.gif" />
and last
If the heads really flow, have good velocity and are ported with that in mind, they don't need a big nasty cam to make excellent power. <img border="0" alt="[angel]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_angel.gif" />
<small>[ July 19, 2002, 08:20 PM: Message edited by: 99 Black Bird T/A ]</small>
First
Are folks with ARE heads that are disappointed, sure their transmissions/clutchs aren't slipping? A slipping transmission/clutch could easily eat up 20-30 or more rwhp. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" />
Second
I thought it was generally reconized that ARE Stage 2 heads were more race only oriented than almost anyone elses. I've heard it said many times ARE Stage I's are equal to most others Stage II's. Likewise, an ARE Stage II head is set up more like someone else Stage III race only head might be. In other words, one would expect ARE Stage II's to be hogged out heads with big valves to work with big cams. Nick always said most people don't use enough cam in his opinion. His set ups that make power seem to take 226/234 as said before.
If I had ARE Stage II's I'd try a proven ARE cam because ARE heads are probably matched to work best with ARE type cams...big split duration cams. If the power was still low with ARE Stage II's, ARE matched cam, tuning, and a solid transmission...someone should be <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="gr_emb.gif" /> and I don't mean the car owner...
Third
Looks like more than one ARE Stage II heads and non-ARE cam set up is making about the same power as a good well tuned cam only set up. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />
Anyone with disappointing results game for putting the stock heads back on with good springs and seeing if the power is about the same with a cam only as it was with the ARE Stage II's and non-ARE cam?
Fourth
If passing emissions are an issue, I'd look to other proven set ups than make power with a small to medium cam. <img border="0" alt="[Fluffy]" title="" src="graemlins/fluffy.gif" />
and last
If the heads really flow, have good velocity and are ported with that in mind, they don't need a big nasty cam to make excellent power. <img border="0" alt="[angel]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_angel.gif" />
<small>[ July 19, 2002, 08:20 PM: Message edited by: 99 Black Bird T/A ]</small>
07-19-2002, 08:56 PM
#27
Re: Poor dyno results on Stage 2 heads and cam, what next? </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by 99 Black Bird T/A:
<strong>
Anyone with disappointing results game for putting the stock heads back on with good springs and seeing if the power is about the same with a cam only as it was with the ARE Stage II's and non-ARE cam?
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I had a medium cam only set-up prior to the heads. Adjusting for weather and cam upgrade, I gained .3 - .4 and 3 - 4 mph.
<strong>
Anyone with disappointing results game for putting the stock heads back on with good springs and seeing if the power is about the same with a cam only as it was with the ARE Stage II's and non-ARE cam?
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I had a medium cam only set-up prior to the heads. Adjusting for weather and cam upgrade, I gained .3 - .4 and 3 - 4 mph.
07-19-2002, 09:00 PM
#28
Re: Poor dyno results on Stage 2 heads and cam, what next? </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Ragtop 99:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by 99 Black Bird T/A:
<strong>
Anyone with disappointing results game for putting the stock heads back on with good springs and seeing if the power is about the same with a cam only as it was with the ARE Stage II's and non-ARE cam?
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I had a medium cam only set-up prior to the heads. Adjusting for weather and cam upgrade, I gained .3 - .4 and 3 - 4 mph.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That sounds like about 30 to 40 rwhp to me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
Isn't that about what a good Stage II head should be worth?
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by 99 Black Bird T/A:
<strong>
Anyone with disappointing results game for putting the stock heads back on with good springs and seeing if the power is about the same with a cam only as it was with the ARE Stage II's and non-ARE cam?
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I had a medium cam only set-up prior to the heads. Adjusting for weather and cam upgrade, I gained .3 - .4 and 3 - 4 mph.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That sounds like about 30 to 40 rwhp to me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
Isn't that about what a good Stage II head should be worth?
07-20-2002, 10:48 PM
#29
Re: Poor dyno results on Stage 2 heads and cam, what next? I expected to be in the 40 - 50 rwhp range. Like I said, Nick thought we'd see 390, maybe a bit more. Heads are a pretty big investment to leave 10 HP on the table.
Having raced with Dave Potter (OnyxSS) I know Nick's stuff can perform, just the big valve set-up may like a different cam. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />
Having raced with Dave Potter (OnyxSS) I know Nick's stuff can perform, just the big valve set-up may like a different cam. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />
07-20-2002, 10:57 PM
#30
Re: Poor dyno results on Stage 2 heads and cam, what next? I was wondering the same thing.. The cam theory with big valves.. This thought has crossed my mind many of nights after my setup was back together.. Is my car under cammed for these heads or like I have said before, my heads are not performing as promised. I have 2.08x1.60's on 5.3L heads. I have the 226 XE-R cam.. Could it be my cam is not giving me enough charge up top for my valves? How big should I go to find out?
07-21-2002, 07:02 AM
#31
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Re: Poor dyno results on Stage 2 heads and cam, what next? </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by 99 Black Bird T/A:
<strong>My .02 worth from <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> reading <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> about ARE and other set ups for the last four years. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />
First
Are folks with ARE heads that are disappointed, sure their transmissions/clutchs aren't slipping? A slipping transmission/clutch could easily eat up 20-30 or more rwhp. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" />
Second
I thought it was generally reconized that ARE Stage 2 heads were more race only oriented than almost anyone elses. I've heard it said many times ARE Stage I's are equal to most others Stage II's. Likewise, an ARE Stage II head is set up more like someone else Stage III race only head might be. In other words, one would expect ARE Stage II's to be hogged out heads with big valves to work with big cams. Nick always said most people don't use enough cam in his opinion. His set ups that make power seem to take 226/234 as said before.
If I had ARE Stage II's I'd try a proven ARE cam because ARE heads are probably matched to work best with ARE type cams...big split duration cams. If the power was still low with ARE Stage II's, ARE matched cam, tuning, and a solid transmission...someone should be <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="gr_emb.gif" /> and I don't mean the car owner...
Third
Looks like more than one ARE Stage II heads and non-ARE cam set up is making about the same power as a good well tuned cam only set up. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />
Anyone with disappointing results game for putting the stock heads back on with good springs and seeing if the power is about the same with a cam only as it was with the ARE Stage II's and non-ARE cam?
Fourth
If passing emissions are an issue, I'd look to other proven set ups than make power with a small to medium cam. <img border="0" alt="[Fluffy]" title="" src="graemlins/fluffy.gif" />
and last
If the heads really flow, have good velocity and are ported with that in mind, they don't need a big nasty cam to make excellent power. <img border="0" alt="[angel]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_angel.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Some good points.
1) My clutch only has about 6000 miles on it, and it's not stock. And there's no slipping on the N2O, so I don't think it would slip on motor.
2) Sounds like that's what people have been saying.
3) If I was to replace my heads only, would I still need to pull off the crank pulley? Because that's the major pain, I'd have to remove the steering rack to just get to the crank pulley.
<strong>My .02 worth from <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> reading <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> about ARE and other set ups for the last four years. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />
First
Are folks with ARE heads that are disappointed, sure their transmissions/clutchs aren't slipping? A slipping transmission/clutch could easily eat up 20-30 or more rwhp. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" />
Second
I thought it was generally reconized that ARE Stage 2 heads were more race only oriented than almost anyone elses. I've heard it said many times ARE Stage I's are equal to most others Stage II's. Likewise, an ARE Stage II head is set up more like someone else Stage III race only head might be. In other words, one would expect ARE Stage II's to be hogged out heads with big valves to work with big cams. Nick always said most people don't use enough cam in his opinion. His set ups that make power seem to take 226/234 as said before.
If I had ARE Stage II's I'd try a proven ARE cam because ARE heads are probably matched to work best with ARE type cams...big split duration cams. If the power was still low with ARE Stage II's, ARE matched cam, tuning, and a solid transmission...someone should be <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="gr_emb.gif" /> and I don't mean the car owner...
Third
Looks like more than one ARE Stage II heads and non-ARE cam set up is making about the same power as a good well tuned cam only set up. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />
Anyone with disappointing results game for putting the stock heads back on with good springs and seeing if the power is about the same with a cam only as it was with the ARE Stage II's and non-ARE cam?
Fourth
If passing emissions are an issue, I'd look to other proven set ups than make power with a small to medium cam. <img border="0" alt="[Fluffy]" title="" src="graemlins/fluffy.gif" />
and last
If the heads really flow, have good velocity and are ported with that in mind, they don't need a big nasty cam to make excellent power. <img border="0" alt="[angel]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_angel.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Some good points.
1) My clutch only has about 6000 miles on it, and it's not stock. And there's no slipping on the N2O, so I don't think it would slip on motor.
2) Sounds like that's what people have been saying.
3) If I was to replace my heads only, would I still need to pull off the crank pulley? Because that's the major pain, I'd have to remove the steering rack to just get to the crank pulley.
