Patman

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by StevieZ:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I tend to find a great deal of metal shavings during the first oil change, some but less on the second, and very little thereafter. This has been my consistent observation with many of my new vehicles.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Not so much shavings but more like minute particles that wipe off as a silver sludge. When I do my oil changes at 3K the plug is almost completely clean.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">So how do you know that if you went 5k or 6k or more, it still wouldn't be clean? Oil is a lot better now than in the past, the 3k oil interval is also a thing of the past. Just like 8 track tapes. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

StevieZ

iTrader: (3)

I know from experience because I have tried. Oil changes every 3K may a thing of the past on diesel trucks belonging to fleets that are trying to save money but speak to anyone who has some serious coin in their motor and ask them how often they change their oil. You're in the Toronto area.... give Agostino Racing a call and ask him what he suggests on one of his motors.He would not be trying to sell you more oil. He would be trying to make the motor he built for you last longer!!!!

<small>[ July 18, 2002, 08:01 PM: Message edited by: StevieZ ]</small>

Patman

You may have tried in the past, but like I said, oils are now better! The change to SL formula oils was a big one. All dino oils had to run a much better base stock in order to pass the updated sludge test. And all synthetics, even the group 3 ones, can easily go 5k no problem anyways.

In a nutshell here are the reasons why ANY oil can go 5k now:

New engines have less blowby
Oil filters are better
SL formula oils are better than ever

Until you do oil analysis, you are only guessing at what is happening with your oil.

StevieZ

iTrader: (3)

Patman do not assume anything. I have tried longer intervals as recent as 2 years ago and in my Viper no doubt.I have seen main bearings in motors that have gone with long drain intervals right beside motors that have gone with short intervals and the difference was obvious. At Titan Motors in Quebec we built a few 542CID Viper stroker motors and the crap we found embedded in the main bearings on a 97 Viper GTS who's owner only felt the need to change his Mobil 1 every 7500 miles, was absolutely pathetic for a car with 40K KMS.

<small>[ July 19, 2002, 05:43 AM: Message edited by: StevieZ ]</small>

Patman

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by StevieZ:
<strong>Patman do not assume anything. I have tried longer intervals as recent as 2 years ago and in my Viper no doubt.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">2 years ago is still too long ago though. The SL formulations just came out in Canada this year, and last year in the US. Like I said, the SL formulations of oils are considerably better. Here is a list of the changes for SL formula oils compared to SJ:

http://www.tosco.com/internet_pub/re...s/44_tn3_4.pdf

Fulton 1

iTrader: (9)

StevieZ,
As you've said I'm missing the point, so here are you missing the point. If you choose to change your oil every 3000 miles based on some advertising campaign (since you've presented zero facts backing your theory that its a necessity) by all means you're welcome to do so. I mean essentially the arguement is, "somebody who spent a bunch of money on their engine doesn't do it so I shouldn't either". I've met many a wealthy individual with high-dollar cars that doesn't know squat about it besides how to show it off.

Realistically the most scientific way to monitor oil life is plain and simply to do analysis on your oil. Saving the $25 to do the analysis is what I would consider being cheap. Hey, even if you plan to change it every 3000 miles an analysis is still an invaluable tool for maintaining your engine. I'm sure anyone with some serious coin in their motor would agree that its money well spent <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />

StevieZ

iTrader: (3)

That is very interesting reading! I just emailed my friend ,Tom Hayden who is an oil additive package formulation engineer and asked him what he thought about this . I'll let you know his response.

<small>[ July 22, 2002, 07:36 AM: Message edited by: StevieZ ]</small>

Stangeater

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by SixPak:
<strong>the only oil my LS1 sees is redline 10-30. it costs a few bucks more than the rest, but in my opinion you get what you pay for and pay for what you get. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I just bought some Redline10w30 and on the label it says not to use as a breakin oil. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> They state not prior to 3,000 miles. Some one gave me a name of a tech at Red Line so i called him. He did say that you should keep using the dino oil for a minimum of 2000 miles. I told him the car {LS1 Firehawk} comes with sythetic oil from the factory and he seemed puzzled. If you shouldn't break in a car with syth. why does the factory build them with it in?
<img border="0" alt="[Firebird]" title="" src="graemlins/formula.gif" />

StevieZ

iTrader: (3)

This is the response I got from the fellow who bought my 1st Viper and who is an oil formulation engineer.I let him know that my car is slightly modified and sees track time and that I change it every 3K miles. I told him I used Royal Purple or Red line. (he turned me on to RP by the way). Now don't forget , he formulates the stuff! "Hi Steve,
No, 3K miles is not necessarily overkill. Oil has to provide many different
"services" and when any one of them are depleted, it's time to change it.
You wouldn't want your football team to consist of 10 great atheletes and
one dead guy.... Depending on your oil temperatures, you may be using up
the anti-oxidant at a faster rate; depending on your engine speeds, you may
be shearing the "thickeners" at a faster rate; depending on engine design
and power output you may be using up the anti-wear properties at a faster
rate. So without knowing exactly, changing the oil is absolutely the safest
and best thing to do. Good luck with it, although just went to Pocono for a
little track time, and there is absolutely nothing that keeps up with a
Viper down the straightaway. But you already knew that. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> "

Thomas E Hayden
ChevronTexaco Technology Beacon


<small>[ July 22, 2002, 07:35 AM: Message edited by: StevieZ ]</small>

Patman

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by MDL-01C5:
<strong>Let me ask you guys a question...though it may sound stupid...
My '01 Corvette is "Mobilized" from the factory, and now has 19,000 miles on it--all Mobil-1...
would there be any benefit to me draining it and running dyno oil for a few thousand miles?
I've always wondered if only ever having had synthetic was inhibiting proper break-in, but after 19K, would it make any difference?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">There's no need to do that, Mobil 1 is not going to hinder the break in process. It's not really any more slippery than conventional oil. Just because an oil is synthetic, doesn't have anything really to do with whether it's more slippery than another oil. That's more to do with the amount of antiwear additives it has in it. And Mobil 1 doesn't have any more antiwear additives than most conventional oils. Where you have to worry is when you run an oil with a lot of moly in it, such as Redline. This can be too slippery for a new engine. As I've said before though, new engines now don't need a lot of miles on them before the rings get seated. Most times they are fully seated before you even take delivery of the car. If they weren't, you'd burn a lot more oil.

Patman

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by sawedoff:
<strong>I currently use a racing brand called Neo Synthetic. I use only 0-5w, and I race. It's about $10 a quart or $35 a gallon. It has improved power by reducing parasitic drag. It's the same stuff the Benetton Formula One team uses in the cars. I don't use a stock filter location either.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yikes! 0w5 oil might work well for qualifying purposes, in a pure race situation, however I would never ever put it in a street going car. There is nowhere near enough film strength in an oil that light to protect your engine. I'd be surprised if it lasted 50k with an oil that light!
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" />

QUASAR

iTrader: (6)

I just took a tour of Katech Inc that build the race engines for the C5-R Vettes. The same ones that won the Rolex 24hr race. They use Mobil 1 synthetic and nothing else. Sure they are sponsored by mobil 1, but if it works for them, It works for me. I'll change my synthetic at 3k anyways.

A freind of mine used redline in his 00 LS1, the oil pressure is around 65-70 at idle, and as soon as you give it gas, the needle goes in the dash. It has showen no gain at the track or anything significant on the dyno either.

MDL-01C5

Thanks for the advise <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" />

Fulton 1

iTrader: (9)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> A freind of mine used redline in his 00 LS1, the oil pressure is around 65-70 at idle, and as soon as you give it gas, the needle goes in the dash. It has showen no gain at the track or anything significant on the dyno either. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Any idea what weight he was using? With the LS6 pump and 10W-30 Redline in my 2000 the warm oil pressure is around 40-45psi at idle and maxes around 65psi at WOT.

ls1fun

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Fulton 1:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> A freind of mine used redline in his 00 LS1, the oil pressure is around 65-70 at idle, and as soon as you give it gas, the needle goes in the dash. It has showen no gain at the track or anything significant on the dyno either. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Any idea what weight he was using? With the LS6 pump and 10W-30 Redline in my 2000 the warm oil pressure is around 40-45psi at idle and maxes around 65psi at WOT.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">When warm i think that's perfect.

I also think if you change your oil every 2-3k miles in an stock ls1 there is no advantage to syn oil.

MDL-01C5

Let me ask you guys a question...though it may sound stupid...
My '01 Corvette is "Mobilized" from the factory, and now has 19,000 miles on it--all Mobil-1...
would there be any benefit to me draining it and running dyno oil for a few thousand miles?
I've always wondered if only ever having had synthetic was inhibiting proper break-in, but after 19K, would it make any difference?

Patman

ls1fun, you are exactly right! There really is no advantage whatsoever to using synthetic oil if you change it every 2-3k (except in the cold winter, where synthetics flow faster, although a lot of dino oils now have very low pour points too)

StevieZ

iTrader: (3)

I agree except for one scenario and that is if your engine overheats. You will have much better protection and much less possibility of bearing damage if using synthetic if your car happens to overheat for any particular reason.

Patman

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by StevieZ:
<strong>I agree except for one scenario and that is if your engine overheats. You will have much better protection and much less possibility of bearing damage if using synthetic if your car happens to overheat for any particular reason.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Why do you say that? A lot of conventional oils now have flash points as high as synthetics! Take Chevron Supreme and Havoline for example, their flash point is 453F, Mobil 1 is 455F! So both will handle the heat just the same.

Things have drastically changed with this SL formulation, synthetics don't have the same huge gap in performance anymore.