Paging akw408
07-25-2002, 02:14 PM
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Re: Paging akw408 </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Chris ARE 360:
<strong>Can you list all your mods for me please. Every last detail. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
I dont want this to turn into a flame fest or I am going to delete it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="gr_images/icons/mad.gif" />
I see you mentioned you are running stock cats as well as a stock T-body. The stock cats are definitely killing you and the T-body doesnt help either. Are you running a stock or LS6 intake?
What headers, catback config, UD pulleys?, and what tuning.
I need this information to be able to help you out. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
Cheers,
Chris</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hey Chris,
The car itself is a 99 C5 M6 with 3.42 diff.
All my mods include :
ARE built shortblock which includes Ross nitrous pistons, shotpeened stock rods, ARP rod bolts, total seal piston rings, etc (timing chain, ARE oil pump, comp r lifters)
ARE S2 heads 2.05/1.60
TR 224 with 114LSA
Vortex rammer air intake
ported MAF
LS6 intake manifold
TPIS long tube headers
ASP pulley
SVO 30# injectors
Corsa indy exhaust
178 degree T-stat
TB bypass
The only things that are still stock are the rocker arms, cats, and the throttle body. I have 2600 miles on the new motor.
As for tuning, I am using just the HPP3 and the MAFT and ready to use the LS1 Edit if I only knew what needed to be tuned. My AF from the dyno was 12.9-13.1 and the timing during those dyno runs were recorded with Autotap to be 29-30.5 degrees.
I'd appreciate any help I can get. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> Things to check that I've heard so far are :
cats (I have heard plenty of cars that have hit 400RWHP with stock cats though <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> )
tuning (what should I look for?)
injectors
Anything else? It seems that apart from these, anything else would involve swapping parts and testing. Does anyone think I would benefit by going to an ARE S1 head? I can't go too radical a cam so I want to stay with the TR 224 cam (for emissions reasons).
<strong>Can you list all your mods for me please. Every last detail. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
I dont want this to turn into a flame fest or I am going to delete it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="gr_images/icons/mad.gif" />
I see you mentioned you are running stock cats as well as a stock T-body. The stock cats are definitely killing you and the T-body doesnt help either. Are you running a stock or LS6 intake?
What headers, catback config, UD pulleys?, and what tuning.
I need this information to be able to help you out. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
Cheers,
Chris</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hey Chris,
The car itself is a 99 C5 M6 with 3.42 diff.
All my mods include :
ARE built shortblock which includes Ross nitrous pistons, shotpeened stock rods, ARP rod bolts, total seal piston rings, etc (timing chain, ARE oil pump, comp r lifters)
ARE S2 heads 2.05/1.60
TR 224 with 114LSA
Vortex rammer air intake
ported MAF
LS6 intake manifold
TPIS long tube headers
ASP pulley
SVO 30# injectors
Corsa indy exhaust
178 degree T-stat
TB bypass
The only things that are still stock are the rocker arms, cats, and the throttle body. I have 2600 miles on the new motor.
As for tuning, I am using just the HPP3 and the MAFT and ready to use the LS1 Edit if I only knew what needed to be tuned. My AF from the dyno was 12.9-13.1 and the timing during those dyno runs were recorded with Autotap to be 29-30.5 degrees.
I'd appreciate any help I can get. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> Things to check that I've heard so far are :
cats (I have heard plenty of cars that have hit 400RWHP with stock cats though <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> )
tuning (what should I look for?)
injectors
Anything else? It seems that apart from these, anything else would involve swapping parts and testing. Does anyone think I would benefit by going to an ARE S1 head? I can't go too radical a cam so I want to stay with the TR 224 cam (for emissions reasons).
07-25-2002, 02:28 PM
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Re: Paging akw408 Can you outline your dyno results so far for me and whether they are on a Mustang/Eddy Current style dyno or a dynojet.
Also did you record any KR on the runs?
Thanks,
Chris
<small>[ July 25, 2002, 02:29 PM: Message edited by: Chris ARE 360 ]</small>
Also did you record any KR on the runs?
Thanks,
Chris
<small>[ July 25, 2002, 02:29 PM: Message edited by: Chris ARE 360 ]</small>
07-25-2002, 02:37 PM
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Re: Paging akw408 akw408,
I’m sorry I can’t offer any real help <img border="0" title="" alt="[Sad]" src="gr_sad.gif" /> , but here’re my thoughts:
Either your Heads/Cam are just mismatched <img border="0" title="" alt="[Sad]" src="gr_sad.gif" /> or there’s something seriously wrong with tuning/rest of the setup. I’m not sure which’s the case here…
The reason I think that is:
ARE "Street Eliminator" package puts out more power than that and the heads are far less aggressive /cam is similar 226/226/554-114LSA
Check it out:
374rwHP/360rwTQ on an auto C5:
http://temp.corvetteforum.net/c5/vst...orrisdyno1.jpg
(From http://forums.corvetteforum.com/zerothread?id=278730)
I think I’ve seen ~390rwHP on M6 cars with this setup (can’t find the links right now)
I always thought it’s not a good idea to mix and match heads/cam from different vendors and this could be this case. Everything has to work as a system.
I realize you wanted a small cam for CA emission purposes (I don’t envy you guys in CA) Maybe you should’ve gone with less aggressive heads to match a less aggressive cam?
Just an idea…..
Anyway I hope you work this out!
I’m sorry I can’t offer any real help <img border="0" title="" alt="[Sad]" src="gr_sad.gif" /> , but here’re my thoughts:
Either your Heads/Cam are just mismatched <img border="0" title="" alt="[Sad]" src="gr_sad.gif" /> or there’s something seriously wrong with tuning/rest of the setup. I’m not sure which’s the case here…
The reason I think that is:
ARE "Street Eliminator" package puts out more power than that and the heads are far less aggressive /cam is similar 226/226/554-114LSA
Check it out:
374rwHP/360rwTQ on an auto C5:
http://temp.corvetteforum.net/c5/vst...orrisdyno1.jpg
(From http://forums.corvetteforum.com/zerothread?id=278730)
I think I’ve seen ~390rwHP on M6 cars with this setup (can’t find the links right now)
I always thought it’s not a good idea to mix and match heads/cam from different vendors and this could be this case. Everything has to work as a system.
I realize you wanted a small cam for CA emission purposes (I don’t envy you guys in CA) Maybe you should’ve gone with less aggressive heads to match a less aggressive cam?
Just an idea…..
Anyway I hope you work this out!
07-25-2002, 03:39 PM
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Re: Paging akw408 </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Chris ARE 360:
<strong>Can you outline your dyno results so far for me and whether they are on a Mustang/Eddy Current style dyno or a dynojet.
Also did you record any KR on the runs?
Thanks,
Chris</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hi Chris,
I had 3 runs on motor and 3 runs on N2O. It may be difficult to make out, but the AF curves that are running richer are the N2O runs. It was a dynojet, and this is my dyno graph :
<img src="http://home.attbi.com/~akwang408/dynorun.jpg" alt=" - " />
Now I'm not just a believer in dyno graphs, I look at track times as well. Before the H/C mods, I was at 330RWHP and I ran a 12.8@112. After the mods, I ran a 12.8@114.5, but with crappier tires. I might have hit a 12.5-6@114.5, but I was really looking to hit at least 117-118mph in the trap. I figured it was just that my car needed tuning, so I went to the dyno and only pulled 369RWHP and I have no idea what to tune.
I have a previous post on this :
https://ls1tech.com/ubb/ultimatebb.p...c;f=1;t=006219
EuG, that's entirely possible. I'm thinking that the heads are just too aggressive for what I was looking for, an emissions friendly package. So that's why I'm wondering if I'd be better off just switching to a stage 1 head. It's interesting that the stock heads that have been cleaned up (the street eliminator) does better than the stage 2 head with similar cams. As for the rest of the setup, I'm not sure what could be wrong, but I have a few things (that I listed previously) I could check.
<small>[ July 25, 2002, 03:42 PM: Message edited by: akw408 ]</small>
<strong>Can you outline your dyno results so far for me and whether they are on a Mustang/Eddy Current style dyno or a dynojet.
Also did you record any KR on the runs?
Thanks,
Chris</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hi Chris,
I had 3 runs on motor and 3 runs on N2O. It may be difficult to make out, but the AF curves that are running richer are the N2O runs. It was a dynojet, and this is my dyno graph :
<img src="http://home.attbi.com/~akwang408/dynorun.jpg" alt=" - " />
Now I'm not just a believer in dyno graphs, I look at track times as well. Before the H/C mods, I was at 330RWHP and I ran a 12.8@112. After the mods, I ran a 12.8@114.5, but with crappier tires. I might have hit a 12.5-6@114.5, but I was really looking to hit at least 117-118mph in the trap. I figured it was just that my car needed tuning, so I went to the dyno and only pulled 369RWHP and I have no idea what to tune.
I have a previous post on this :
https://ls1tech.com/ubb/ultimatebb.p...c;f=1;t=006219
EuG, that's entirely possible. I'm thinking that the heads are just too aggressive for what I was looking for, an emissions friendly package. So that's why I'm wondering if I'd be better off just switching to a stage 1 head. It's interesting that the stock heads that have been cleaned up (the street eliminator) does better than the stage 2 head with similar cams. As for the rest of the setup, I'm not sure what could be wrong, but I have a few things (that I listed previously) I could check.
<small>[ July 25, 2002, 03:42 PM: Message edited by: akw408 ]</small>
07-25-2002, 04:10 PM
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Re: Paging akw408 </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">interesting that the stock heads that have been cleaned up (the street eliminator) does better than the stage 2 head with similar cams.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It’s entirely possible. Internal combustion motor is a complicated system that begins at air filter and end at the muffler (well for some anyways lol )
Everything needs to be well matched.
I think an analogy would be putting some huge 1 7/8 (or bigger) headers and running them open on bone stock motor. I think you may actually lose power that way…
Anyway, I hope you get the power you want back one way or another!
Good luck.
Everything needs to be well matched.
I think an analogy would be putting some huge 1 7/8 (or bigger) headers and running them open on bone stock motor. I think you may actually lose power that way…
Anyway, I hope you get the power you want back one way or another!
Good luck.
07-25-2002, 04:54 PM
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Re: Paging akw408 Those # are VERY close to what I ran, with the same heads & cam. I have similar mods, except no cats.
I think it's safe to say that this is a mis match. Look at the other threads on this subject, for a cam that might fit better. Or call & talk to Barry @ ARE.
I think it's safe to say that this is a mis match. Look at the other threads on this subject, for a cam that might fit better. Or call & talk to Barry @ ARE.
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07-25-2002, 05:42 PM
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Re: Paging akw408 </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by VINCE:
<strong>Remember that dyno #'s do not mean nothing. Take it to the track.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I did take it to the track. I'm not a dyno queen, if I ran well at the track I could care less about the dyno numbers.
<strong>Remember that dyno #'s do not mean nothing. Take it to the track.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I did take it to the track. I'm not a dyno queen, if I ran well at the track I could care less about the dyno numbers.
07-25-2002, 06:39 PM
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Re: Paging akw408 </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by VINCE:
<strong>So what did you run? That is what counts.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I posted this on my 2nd post of the topic, the one with the dyno graph. Right below the dyno graph.
<strong>So what did you run? That is what counts.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I posted this on my 2nd post of the topic, the one with the dyno graph. Right below the dyno graph.
07-25-2002, 06:48 PM
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Re: Paging akw408 This might sound odd, but when I was stock I was running 8.4's all day.. in the 1/8th. I dyno'd then 318rwhp. Post cam/headers and tuning I was running 8.6's at almost 90mph with 390rwhp/380rwtq.. I took me a month of practice to get down to 7.7 in the 1/8th. It took me 2 months to run a 12.28 at 116mph. This was all with 3.42's and DR's. Raceweight is 3750lbs. My air pressure was 28lbs..
07-25-2002, 07:15 PM
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Re: Paging akw408 I think you would easily hit 118mph without cats on the car and a good offroad pipe/Xpipe and ported TB.
I slowed 2 tenths and 2.5 mph with dual 3 INCH HIGH FLOW cats vs the offroad. Makes a big difference. 15-20RWHP. That with the ported T-body will make up the power you are looking for IMO. Also you are a C5 which dynos lower than an F-bod as well.
I think you should really try an offroad with Xpipe and ported T-body. Then with LS1EDIT tuning on the dyno you will pick up a ton. I bet 118mph will be cake. I find ARE packages tend to like around 12.4-12.6:1 AF on the dyno and around 27 degrees advance depending on the compression ratio.
Works out perfect on the street around 13.0:1 (dyno only loads the equiv of a 2800 pound car.)
Dont get discouraged, you have more there FOR SURE. I guarantee it.
Cheers,
Chris
<small>[ July 25, 2002, 07:20 PM: Message edited by: Chris ARE 360 ]</small>
I slowed 2 tenths and 2.5 mph with dual 3 INCH HIGH FLOW cats vs the offroad. Makes a big difference. 15-20RWHP. That with the ported T-body will make up the power you are looking for IMO. Also you are a C5 which dynos lower than an F-bod as well.
I think you should really try an offroad with Xpipe and ported T-body. Then with LS1EDIT tuning on the dyno you will pick up a ton. I bet 118mph will be cake. I find ARE packages tend to like around 12.4-12.6:1 AF on the dyno and around 27 degrees advance depending on the compression ratio.
Works out perfect on the street around 13.0:1 (dyno only loads the equiv of a 2800 pound car.)
Dont get discouraged, you have more there FOR SURE. I guarantee it.
Cheers,
Chris
<small>[ July 25, 2002, 07:20 PM: Message edited by: Chris ARE 360 ]</small>
07-26-2002, 12:01 AM
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Paging akw408 Can you list all your mods for me please. Every last detail. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
I dont want this to turn into a flame fest or I am going to delete it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="gr_images/icons/mad.gif" />
I see you mentioned you are running stock cats as well as a stock T-body. The stock cats are definitely killing you and the T-body doesnt help either. Are you running a stock or LS6 intake?
What headers, catback config, UD pulleys?, and what tuning.
I need this information to be able to help you out. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
Cheers,
Chris
<small>[ July 25, 2002, 12:02 PM: Message edited by: Chris ARE 360 ]</small>
I dont want this to turn into a flame fest or I am going to delete it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="gr_images/icons/mad.gif" />
I see you mentioned you are running stock cats as well as a stock T-body. The stock cats are definitely killing you and the T-body doesnt help either. Are you running a stock or LS6 intake?
What headers, catback config, UD pulleys?, and what tuning.
I need this information to be able to help you out. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
Cheers,
Chris
<small>[ July 25, 2002, 12:02 PM: Message edited by: Chris ARE 360 ]</small>
07-26-2002, 04:52 PM
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Re: Paging akw408 </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Chris ARE 360:
<strong>I think you would easily hit 118mph without cats on the car and a good offroad pipe/Xpipe and ported TB.
I slowed 2 tenths and 2.5 mph with dual 3 INCH HIGH FLOW cats vs the offroad. Makes a big difference. 15-20RWHP. That with the ported T-body will make up the power you are looking for IMO. Also you are a C5 which dynos lower than an F-bod as well.
I think you should really try an offroad with Xpipe and ported T-body. Then with LS1EDIT tuning on the dyno you will pick up a ton. I bet 118mph will be cake. I find ARE packages tend to like around 12.4-12.6:1 AF on the dyno and around 27 degrees advance depending on the compression ratio.
Works out perfect on the street around 13.0:1 (dyno only loads the equiv of a 2800 pound car.)
Dont get discouraged, you have more there FOR SURE. I guarantee it.
Cheers,
Chris</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hi Chris,
Trying not to be discouraged. I'm planning on doing a leakdown test next week and then possibly taking the car to MMS for some dyno tuning. Maybe check out the cats then. I've heard of so many C5s making 400+ RWHP with their stock cats, and being in CA, I don't want to really mess with them either.
How does an X-pipe help anyway? What I mean is why would that help make more power?
Thanks!
<strong>I think you would easily hit 118mph without cats on the car and a good offroad pipe/Xpipe and ported TB.
I slowed 2 tenths and 2.5 mph with dual 3 INCH HIGH FLOW cats vs the offroad. Makes a big difference. 15-20RWHP. That with the ported T-body will make up the power you are looking for IMO. Also you are a C5 which dynos lower than an F-bod as well.
I think you should really try an offroad with Xpipe and ported T-body. Then with LS1EDIT tuning on the dyno you will pick up a ton. I bet 118mph will be cake. I find ARE packages tend to like around 12.4-12.6:1 AF on the dyno and around 27 degrees advance depending on the compression ratio.
Works out perfect on the street around 13.0:1 (dyno only loads the equiv of a 2800 pound car.)
Dont get discouraged, you have more there FOR SURE. I guarantee it.
Cheers,
Chris</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hi Chris,
Trying not to be discouraged. I'm planning on doing a leakdown test next week and then possibly taking the car to MMS for some dyno tuning. Maybe check out the cats then. I've heard of so many C5s making 400+ RWHP with their stock cats, and being in CA, I don't want to really mess with them either.
How does an X-pipe help anyway? What I mean is why would that help make more power?
Thanks!